Luwian notes

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Re: Luwian notes

Postby E.P. Grondine » Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:58 pm

Note that Caria is not shown in this map:

Image

which leaves us with some problems in locating Kupanta Kurantas.
Further, there is another problem following from the Personal+(ehtnonym) location construct:
Manapa Tarhuntas

But Karyantis is shown on this map, as being just south of MILA (Miletus)
My estimate is that Turkey is blessed with yet another major bronze age polity.

Image

The Low Hittite Chronology is based on a recurring astronomical phenomenon,
and must be be set back by 64 years to the Middle Hittite Chronology.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_chronology

I am not going to go into the Palestinians, nor the Israelites here;
my goal is to incorporate the new materials, both on Kupapa and Tudhalayaha IV,
and re-examine the placement of the Indictment of Madduwatas
to identify the date of the mega-drought as best as possible,
in order to see if it is connected with the Great Atlantic Impact Mega-tsunami.

The reign of Ahmose may bet set at 1628 BCE, the time of the eruption of Thera.
Gardiner's dates set back by 50 and 75 years:

XVIII Dynasty
Ahmose I 1625-1600 {1650 - 1625} [1575-1550]
Amenhotep I 1600-1578 {1625 - 1603} [1550-1528]
Thutmose I 1578-1560 {1608 - 1585} [1528-1510]
Thutmose II 1560-1540 {1585 - 1565} [1510-1490]
Thutmose III 1540 - 1486 {1565 - 1511} [1490-1436]
Battle of Megiddo, c.1528 {1553} [c.1478]
Queen Hatshepsut 1540-1518 {1565-1543} [1490-1468]

Amenhotep II 1486- 1463 {1511- 1488} [1436-1413]
Thutmose IV 1463- 1455 {1488- 1480} [1413-1405]
Amenhotep III 1455- 1417 {1480- 1442} [1405-1367]
Amenhotep IV/Akhenaton 1427- 1400 {1442- 1425} [1367-1350
Smenkhkare/Queen Nefertiti? 1400- 1397 {1425-1422} [1350-1347]
Tutankhamon 1397- 1389 {1422- 1414} [1347-1339]
Aye 1389-1385 {1414-1410} [1339-1335]
Haremhab 1385- 1358 {1410- 1383} [1335-1308]

XIX Dynasty
Ramesses I 1358 {1383} [1308]
Seti I 1359-1341 {1385-1366} [1309-1291]
Ramesses II 1349 - 1274 {1365 - 1299} [1290-1224]
Battle of Qadesh, 1325 {1350} [1275];
Egyptian-Hittite Treaty, 1309 {1334} [1259]
Merenptah 1274 - 1264 {1299 - 1289} [1224-1214]
Amenmesse(s) ? 1252-1249 {1277 -1274} [? 1202-1199 1214-1210 ]
Seti II 1264-1258 {1289-1283} [1214-1208]
Siptah 1258-1252 {1283-1277} [1208-1202]
Queen Twosret 1252- 1244 {1277- 1269} [1202-1194]

XX Dynasty
Setnakht 1234- 1232 {1259- 1257} [1184-1182]
Ramesses III 1232-1201 {1257-1226} [1182-1151]
Ramesses IV 1201-1195 {1226-1220} [1151-1145]
Ramesses V 1195- 1191 {1220- 1216} [1145-1141]
Ramesses VI 1191-1184 {1216-1209} [1141-1134]
Ramesses VII 1184 {1209} [1134]
Ramesses VIII 1184 {1209} [1134]
Ramesses IX 1184- 1167 {1209- 1192} [1134-1117]
Ramesses X 1167-1164 {1192-1189} [1117-1114]
Ramesses XI 1164 - 1137[ {1190 - 1162} [1114-1087]


Lehmann
Johannes Lehmann
The Hittites
People of a thousand gods
Viking Press, 1977

Lehmann gets Greek identifications from
Fredrich Cornelius
Geschichte der Hethiter
mit besonder Berucksichtung der geographischen Verhaltnisse
und Rechtesgeschishte
and
M. Riemschneider
Der Welt der Hethiter

Beckman
Gary Beckman
Hittite Diplomatic Texts
Society of Biblical Literature
1996

Astour
Michael C. Astour
Hittite History
and Absolute Chronology of the Bronze Age
Paul Astroms forlag
Partille 1989

Astour points out that all Hittite and Luwain names in nda, nza have parallel forms without nda, nza
Zida-nda-sh/Zida-sh
(Astour, page 32,33)

Amenemhat, an Egyptian astronomer and clockmaker has left an autobiography
presumed contemporary of Thutmose I
Astour, JNES 31, 1972, pages 102-109
Wilheim, Acta Antiqua 26, 1976, pages 149-161
(Astour, page 44)

Notes on Thutmose I
Astour pages 15-16

Astour places Ishuwa between Taurus, Euphrates, and Arsanias
(Astour, pages 52 - 53)

Astour places homeland of Kaskans at
Kashkan Mountains near Kurushtama in Northeast Anatolia
Kurushtama ally with Kaskans for a raid on a Hatti city
Kaskans are mercenaries
Amenhotep III 1455- 1417 {1480- 1442} [1405-1367] asks King Tarhundaradu of Arzawa to send him Kaskans
as Hatti has "went to pieces"
(Astour, page 65)

There was an ancient treaty by which
A King of Hatti shipped some people from Kurushtama, a part of Hatti,
to Egypt and "Turned them into Egyptians"
Astour ascribes it to Tudhaliya I
(Astour, pages 64 - 66)

[tarhu/nta = taur (bull) = tyr/ant?]



"THUNDERBOLT STEERS ALL THINGS"
- Heroclitus of Miletus
(except when super volcanoes erupt)

1) Pithana
son Anita, king of Khussara, conquers
1)Nesa
2)Hattusa - land of Hatti or Chatti
(Lehmann, page 184)
Ch't torah
Cheta'las Egyptian
ch should have value as Scottish Loch
(Lehmann, page 21)

[K'ittim or Chittim = Linear B ki-ti - e.p.g.]

3) Salatiwara

4) Burushanda

lacunae

5) Grandfather of Hatusili I
(Astour page 12)

6) Tabarna or Labarna
(Lehmann, page 191)

Labarna conquers Arzawa and Wilusa (Ilios)
Wilusa later manages to gain independence
(Beckman, page 82)

7) Papahdilmak
Challenges Labarna for throne
(Astour page 12)

8) Hatusili I (Hattushilish) 1639-1604 by Hittite Middle Chronology

Thera explosion 1628 by ice cores and dendro-chronology

(? Hatusili I deposes Labarna
deposes Huzziya (=Hassu above), king of Tapassanda
civil war
(Lehmann, pages 192-193)

attacks Arzawa in 3rd year
(Hatusili I's Res Gestae, Astour, page 23)
[This must be because of ERUPTION OF THERA - e.p.g.]

Hattusili I faces revolt
conquers Allepo (Halib)
crosses Pura River, conquers Hassu,
which Sargon of Akkad was unable to do 700 years earlier
(Lehmann, pages 190-192)

Hammurapi II of Yahmad (Aleppo) sends forces to help Hashshu
stops Hatusili I
Hatusili I attacks Urshu
Aleppo, Zarzuar, Carchemish, Hurrians, send forces
Hatusili I transfers cities of Aleppo and Nuhashshe (to the south-east of Aleppo and inland of Ugarit)
to Ashtata on the Euphrates River
(this is in the aftermath of the Eruption of Thera)

Aleppo joins Hanigalbat
Aleppo regains territories
Aleppo revolts from Hanigalbat
(Astour, pages 16-17)

Nuhashshe = Nugasa (Egptian) = Ngt (Ugarit)
(Astour, page 113)

Hanigalbat=Hurri=Mitani=Naharina emerges
(Astour's identifications, page 14)

Hatusili I fights them at Ilansura on Tigris River
(Astour, page 14)

Hattusili I destroys
Alalakh (Acana)
Hashshu (Tilmen Huyuk)
Ebla (Tell Mardikh)
Ikakalish-Ikanal (near Taurus)
(Tell Tuqan)
Urshu (Gaziantep)
(Habuba Kabira on Euphrates)
(Astour, page 89)


9) Mursili I (Murshilish) 1604-1594 by Hittite Middle Chronology
(= greek Myrsilios)

(Mursili II deafened by impact event explosion?
- must be reason he took name of Mursili I, deafened by Thera explosion
(Lehmann, page 230)
[Have these two plague accounts been conflated accidentally? - e.p.g.]

(Mursili II explicitly models himself after Mursili I - Astour page 13)

deafened by explosion as youth - Thera eruption
" the weather god thundered terribly from afar.
And the word in my mouth became small"
20 years of plague
(after effect of Thera eruption)
(Lehmann, page 230)

Mursili I marches on Aleppo to avenge his father's death
(Lehmann, pages 197-198)

Mursili I destroys Aleppo
(Beckman, page 89)

1596 Mursili I conquers Aleppo
(Astour, page 92, date adjusted to Hittite Middle Chronology)

1595 Mursili I marches to Babylon
(Astour pages 13-14, date adjusted to Hittite Middle Chronology)

Mursili I attacked by Hurrians on way home
(Lehmann, pages 198-199)

Mursili I defeated by Hurrians
(Astour, page 14)

Hurrians (=Horites)
have already come from Lake Van to Northern Euphrates
(old homeland of Jamnites, tribe of Benjamin - Weippert)
from India originally
(Lehmann, page 214)

Mursili I enters into treaty with Hapiru
(Astour, page 13)
[1st appearance of Hebrews?,
probably attack on Rephidim - e.p.g.]

Mursili I assassinated by Hantili and Zida/nta (man of Zida?)-


10) Hantili I (Hantilish) 1594-1564 by middle chronology

Murders Mursili I
Attacks Hurri to "Ashtata on right bank of Euphrates River"
Defeated by Hurri
Loses queen and heirs to Hurri,
who take them to Shugziya and have locals kill them
(Edict of Telepinu, Astour, page 16, page 22, page 87)

According to the fragmentary tablet KBo III 46:
someone dies in Shugziya
after the death of 3 Hittite commanders
an unnammed Hittite king assembles
3000 Hapiru men
and garrisons them in a (name lost) city
(Astour, page 87, identifies this as Hantili I)

Hantili campaigns in Syria
Hurrians attack him
Aleppo frees itself
Hantili attacked in north by GasGans (= Linear B ke-ke?)
(Lehmann, page 200)

[T'e-Hantilish, king of Zippasla = Tantalus, king of Sipylus (Zipa?) -e.p.g.]

1576 BCE In the 2nd year of his reign
Thutmose I 1578-1560 {1608 - 1585} [1528-1510] undertook a campaign in Mitanni (Hurri)
reached bank of Euphrates River, erected a victory stele there
(Astour, page 15)


1576 BCE Thutmose I 1578-1560 {1608 - 1585} [1528-1510] in northern Syria,
Ilim-ilimna I's ascent to kingship of Aleppo
1575 Ilim-ilimna dies; Idrimi flees to Amiya
(Astour, page 92, dates adjusted)

Egyptian campaign also possibly attributed to Amenhotep I 1600-1578 {1625 - 1603} [1550-1528]
in dismantled monumental gate at Karnak
(Astour, page 88)

lives long life and dies natural death
(Astour, page 22)


11) Zida/nta (Zida/ntash) 1564-1554 by Hittite Middle Chronology

Married to Hantili's daughter
(Edict of Telepinu, Astour, page 92)

kills Hantili's family, (then Hantili?)

Idrimi, son of Ilim-ilimna, goes to Hapiru
retakes control of Alakah, new capital, rules Aleppo
pledges loyalty to Parattarna of Hurri
raids Hatti and Hittite cities of Uluzila and Zaruna in Cilicia
(Astour, pages 19-20)

1574 Idrimi returns to Alakah
1567 Idrimi submits to Parattarna, king of Hurri
1564-1554 Idrimi enters into a treaty with Pillaya,
1st king of Kizzuwadna
(Astour, page 92, Hittite Middle Chronology)

Idrimi enters into treaty with Pillaya king of Kizzuwadna
Zidanzash also enters into treaty with Pillaya king of Kizzuwadna
(Astour, page 21)

Treaty with Pilliya of Kizzuwatna is ascribed
to Zidanzash by Astour, not Beckman

Treaty mentions earlier wars between Kizzuwadna and Hatti

Hyksos called heka-khasut "rulers of foreign lands" by Egyptians
(Lehmann, page 213)

[ If khasut = Kizzuwad/na,
This is the first appearance of the Hyksos
Possibly these may be the same as OT Kahoth? - e.p.g.]

Formerly called A/Daniya, an integral part of Hatti
in Cilicia
(Beckman, page 11)

Kizzuwadna partitioned from A/Daniya
Kizzuwadna called Cataonia is Greek/Roman times
(Astour, page 38)

Kizzuwadna was eastern Cilicia
At the time of conquest called Kumanni
Pillaya or Palliya establishes rite at
seven springs of Lawazantiya
(Astour, pages 101-102)

Qode - Qadi(Egy) - Qty (Ug) - Ketai, Ketis of rugged Cilicia (classical)
is adjacent to but not to be confused with Kizzuwadna
(Astour, page 93)


12) Ammuna
kills his father Zidanta
attacks A/Daniya
(Astour, page 22)

1544 Idrimi dies
(Astour, page 92, date adjusted)


13) Huzziya
kills rivals for throne
tries to kill Telpinu but fails
Telepinu deposes him
(Edict of Telepinu, Astour, page 24)


14) Telepinu
deposes Huzziya
begins campaign against Hashshuwa


15) Tahurwaili (Tahurwailish)
kills Tittish and his sons
seizes throne from Telepinu
enters into treaty with Eheya king of Kizzuwadna
(Astour, pages 23-25)

[Beckman places Tahurwaili after Telepinu erroneously]


14) Telepinu - puts down revolt by Tahurwaili
Battle at Zazzilipa, Astour thinks this might be in Kizzuwadna
Battle at Lawazantiya
Ruler Lahhash flees to Larisha
Telepinu returns to Hatti
Tahurwaili(sh) and others flee to Hanhana in the north
(Edict of Telepinu, Astour, pages 25-26)

Thutmose III 1540 - 1486 {1565 - 1511} [1490-1436] launches campaign:
1536 [1472] Reaches Euphrates River and receives gifts from
Assyria, Babylonia, and Hittites
1535 [1471] Takes cities in Nuhashshe (inland from Ugarit)
1534 [1470] Offensive stopped in its tracks
1531 [1467] Battles Nuhashshe (inland from Ugarit) and receives tribute from Alakah
(all dates Astour, page 29, corresponding Egyptian dates?)

Babylonia = Sangara (Egyptian) = Sanhara Sa-an-ha-ar (Hittite, Mit Alashiote)
(Astour, page 120)

Later letter of Burnaburiash, king of Sangara (Babylonia)
Princes of Canaan attempted a rebellion against Egypt
Princes try to obtain help of Kurigalzu, king of Sanagara (Babylonia)
Kurigalzu refuses out of loyalty to Egypt
(Astour, pages 120-121)

Telepinu institutes reforms:
sets up laws of succession.
Gives power to Pankus = court of nobles,
(Lehmann, pages 208-209)
[= L.B. pa-ko, officals also known at Troy from the Iliad - e.p.g.]

Pankus tries and executes Lahhash,
sentences Tahurwailish and others to death,
but Telepinu blinds them and "puts them in yoke" instead
(Edict of Telepinu, Astour, page 26)

Telepinu concludes treaty with Isputahsu of Kizzuwadna
(Lehmann, page 212)

Telepinu's grandson, Tudhalyia I claims that in time of Telepinu:
Kizzuwatna was part of Hatti,
then defected to Hurri.
Tudhaliya I's contemporary, the King of Hurri,
claims the same for the Isuwa:
"The populations of these cities had previously,
in the time of my grandfather,
come to the land of Hurri and settled there.
And indeed afterwards they went as fugitives to the land of Hatti.
Now, finally, the cattle have chosen their stable.
They have definitely come to my land."
(Treaty of Tudhalyia II with Sunashshura of Kizzuwatna
Beckman, page 14-15)
(should be Tudhaliya I, see Astour Pages 109-110))


16) Alluwamna
son in law of Telepinu
(Astour, page 96)


17) Tudhalyia I (Tudhaliyash)
concludes treaty with Sunashshura king of Kizzuwatna
with historical preamble:
in the time of his grandfather [Telepinu],
Kizzuwatna was part of Hatti then defected to Hurri.
Tudhaliya I attacks Isuwa.
Isuwa flee to Hurri
Hurri (Horite) king claims that
Isuwa settled in his land in the time of his grandfather
"The populations of these cities had previously,
in the time of my grandfather, come to the land of Hurri and settled here."
Hurri then attack Isuwa.
Tudhaliya engaged with another enemy elsewhere
(presumably Arzawa, Beckman(?), page 20)
Tudhaliya attacked Arzawa
(Beckman, page 82)
Hurri making claims against Kizzuwatna.
Kizzuwatna returns to ally with Hatti.
(Treaty of Tudhalyia II (should be Tudhaliya I)
with Sunashshura of Kizzuwatna, Beckman, page 14)

Tudhaliya I attacks Isuwa
(Astour, pages 52-52, page 110 citing
Houwink Ten Cate
The records of the Early Hittite Empire, Ankara
Horst Klengel
Die Hethiter Und Isuwa
OA 7, 1967, pages 63-76
Nochmals zu Isuwa
OA 15, 1976, pages 85-89)

Isuwa joined by Shaushatar, king of Mitanni (Hurri)
in battle against Tudhaliya I
Tudhalyia I conquers Kizzuwadna city of Kummani
removes "idol of the Black Deity" to Shamuha on upper Euphrates River
on his way to Mitanni (Hurri)/Isuwa
(Astour, page 56)


18) Arnuwanda I (Arnuwandash)
(Astour - Beckman places him after Tudhalyia II)


1445 BCE
EGYPTIAN ALLIAMCE WITH MITANI (Hurri)
Amenhotep III 1455- 1417 {1480- 1442} [1405-1367]
marries Giluhipa, daughter of
Shuttarna II, king of Mitanni (Hurri)
in the tenth year of his reign
(Astour, page 112)

Arnuwanda I son of Tudhaliya I
co-regent with him
(Astour, page 51)

Arzawans have arisen,
GasGans have conquered many cities.
(Lehmann, page 215)

Kizzuwadna conquered by Mitanni (Hurri)
Sunashshura, King of Kizzuwadna and Mitanni (Hurri) vassal
concludes treaty with Arnuwanda I
(Astour, pages 54-55)

Arnuwanda I places 25 trusted noblemen each with 150 soldiers
in charge of cities of Kizzuwadna
(Astour, page 68)

Amenhotep III 1455- 1417 {1480- 1442} [1405-1367]
sends "diplomatic" mission to Mycenean Greeks and Achaeans (a2-a-ja) on Crete
Amenhotep III 1455- 1417 {1480- 1442} [1405-1367] asks King Tarhundaradu of Arzawa to send him Kaskans
as Hatti has "went to pieces"
(Astour, page 65)

19) Hantili II (Beckman, seen as co-regent with Arnuwandash by Astour)
equality treaty with Paddatissu of Kizzuwadna.

(Lehmann, page 213, treaty, Beckman, page 11)


20) Zidanta II (Beckman, seen as co-regent with Arnuwandash by Astour)
(treaty with Pilliya of Kizzuwatna is ascribed to him
by Beckman, page 11, but not Astour, pages 37-38)


21) Huzziya II (Beckman, seen as co-regent with Arnuwandash by Astour)
Kizzuwadna concedes land to him
(Lehmann, page 213)


22) Muwattalli
(Greek Motylos?)
Akkadian NIR.GAL = Mutalla
(Astour, page 35)

Kills Huzziya II
(Astour, page 33)

Killed by son of Tudhaliya I
(Astour, page 33)

Muwatalli killed by Kantuzillish, son of Tudhaliya I,
and Himulish, chief of frontier troops
Himulish joined by a Hatusili, not Hatusili II
(Astour, page 33, pages 46-47)


23) Arnuwanda II (Arnuwandash)
(placed here by Beckman, but not Astour)


24) Tudhaliya II (here placed after Arnuwanda by Astour)
Treaty with Sunashshura of Kizzuwatna is ascribed to him by Beckman,
but this must be with Tudhaliya I, as Astour rightly states
(Beckman, page 14)

Aleppo joins with Mitanni (Hurri), withdraws from Hatti
Tudhaliya II destroys them both
(Treaty of Talmi-Sharruma, Astour, page 39, page 42)

Tudhaliya II attacks Aleppo and Hanigalbat
Ashtata and Nuhashshi (inland of Ugarit) want cities of Aleppo.
Mitanni (Hurrians) and Hatti recognize their claim.
(Beckman, page 89)

Ishuwa and 15 other states all around Hatti rebel
Hattushash itself is burnt down
Amenhotep III 1455- 1417 {1480- 1442} [1405-1367] writes that
"I have heard that everything is finished
and the land of Hattushash, too,
has gone to pieces."
(Astour, page 70)
Amenhotep III 1455- 1417 {1480- 1442} [1405-1367] asks King Tarhundaradu of Arzawa to send him Kaskans
as Hatti has "went to pieces"
(Astour, page 65)


Sippiluliuma claims that
in the time of his father (Tudhalyia II)
Isuwa became hostile
troops of Hatii entered the land of Isuwa, which is composed of:

troops of the city of Kurtalissa
troops of the city of Arawanna
troops of the land of Zazisa
the land of Kalasma
the land of Timana
Mount Haliwa
Mount Karna
troops of the city of Turmitta
the land of Alha
the land of Hurmia
Mount Harana
half of the land of Tegarama
troops of the city of Tepuriya
troops of the city of Hazka
troops of the city of Armatana

There is no mention that Tudhalyia II defeated Isuwa
(Beckman, page 38)


25) Hatusili II (Beckman, does not exist for Astour)


25) Tudhaliya II (rightly here by Astour, not Beckman)

son of Arnuwanda
(Astour, page 51)


26) Tudhaliya III

murdered by supporters of Suppiluliuma.
(Astour, page 50)


27) Suppiluliuma 1386-1347/1346
fights Gasgans for 20 years
attacks Hurrians,
Tushratta, king of Mitanni (Hurrians), defeats him
Tushratta sends part of the spoils to Pharoah Amenhotep III 1455- 1417 {1480- 1442} [1405-1367]
(Lehmann, page 221)

Tarhundaradus, King of Arzawa -
Arzawa by then had made
Tuwanuwa (Tyana), 100 miles to Hattusas's south
and Uda "his frontier",
initated diplomatic correspondence with Amenhotep III 1455- 1417 {1480- 1442} [1405-1367]
Tarhundaradus even dared request Pharaoh, in Kneshian, for his daughter's hand in marriage.
Pharaoh Amenhotep III's reply is missing.
(Bryce)

Arzawa revolts
(Beckman, page 82)

1415 BCE
Akhenaton 1427- 1400 {1442- 1425} [1367-1350]
1415 BCE - year 12 attacks Amurru
(Astour, page 6)

Kizzuwadna defect from Hurrians, ally with Hittites
Kizzuwadna promise help against Arzawa
(Lehmann, pages 223-224)

Mahuiluwa flees MIRA(Miletus)-Kuwaliya to Suppiluliuma
Suppiluliuma engaged elsewhere
(Beckman, page 69)

In his father's time Isuwa became hostile,
Suppuliliuma destroyed the land of Isuwa.
(Beckman, page 38)

"I, Suppiluliuma, the Great King, immediately crossed the sea.
The ships of Alasiya (Cyprus) met me in the sea three times for battle,
and I smote them; and I seized the ships and set the fire to them in the sea.
But when I arrived on dry land,
the enemies came from Alasiya (Cyprus) in multitude against me for battle."

Frees (from Egyptians?) Ugarit (conquers Ugarit)
(Beckman, page 30)

Suppululiuma attacks Mitanni (Hurrians), takes Carchemish and Aleppo.
Suppululiuma takes lands of Nuhashshi (inland from Ugarit)
takes lands of Kinza (Canaan) and Amurru from Egypt
(Beckman, page 89)
establishes kingdom of Amurru
brings up Aziru (???) from the gates of Egypt
(Beckman, page 32)

Suppuliliuma attacks Egyptian tributary Amqa
(Astour, page 64)

Tushratta of Mitanni (Hurrians) also wants a piece of the coastal region
Suppuliliuma attacks Mitanni (Hurrians)
captures Shutatarra, son of the King of the Hurrians.
Shutatarra, the son of the king of the Hurrians, kills Tushratta of Mitanni (Hurrians)
Shutatarra rebels
Suppililiuma defeats Hurrians
Suppuliliuma installs Shattiwaza as king of Mitanni (Hurrians)
Suppuliliuma installs Piyassili on the west bank of the Eupahrates River
(Beckman, page 38 et seq)

Suppililiuma is contemporary of Ankhesaenamum,
widow of Tutankhamun (1422- 1414),
son of Amenophis IV, a.k.a. Akhenaten (1442- 1425)
who seeks a son for alliance
Suppililiuma's son killed
(Lehmann, pages 13-16)

Suppililiuma attacks Egypt in revenge,
prisoners of war bring plague.
(Lehmann, page 235)

Suppililiuma dies 1346 BCE of plague (Annals of Mursili II)
(Lehmann, page 228)


28) Arnuwanda, Suppililiuma's son dies of plague, 1347/1346 - 1345 BCE


29) Mursili II 1344-1316 BCE
(greek Myrsilios0

1335 BCE in 10th year of his reign,
begins campaign against Hayasha
omen of the sun occurs
previously thought to be eclipse of March 13, 1335XXX
Asteroid Impact at Ephesus.
Tawanna interprets as immenent destruction of royal house
Mursili II ignores and goes on to conquer Hayasha
(Astour, page 5)

[deafened by explosion as youth - impact event? - Murshilish I
or accidental conflation of two plague accounts? - e.p.g.]
" the weather god thundered terribly from afar.
And the word in my mouth became small"
20 years of plague
[after effect of impact event? - e.p.g.]

[These two plague accounts have probably been accidentally conflated
see Astour, page 64 - e.p.g.]

Mursili II's father killed Tudhaliya III.
(Lehmann, pages 230-231)

One of the causes of the plague the breaking of a treaty by
Suppuliliuma's invasion of the Egyptian Amqa.
(Astour, page 64)

Manapa of Tarhuntassa flees from his brother
Ura of Tarhuntassa, ruler of Seha River-Appiaya.
Manapa of Tarhuntassa backs
Uhha-ziti, king of Arzawa, in revolt.

Mursili II defeats Uhha-ziti of Arzawa
"installs" (recognizes) Manapa of Tarhuntassa as ruler of Seha River-Appiaya
(Beckman, page 78-79)

Uhhazitis king of Arzawa rules from Apasus (Ephesus)
Uhhazitis -

Uhha-Ziti was the last independent king of Arzawa, a Bronze Age kingdom of western Anatolia.

from wikipedia:
Uhha-Ziti had two recorded children, Piyama Kurunta (CARIAN) and Tapalazunauli, who were of fighting age as of 1322 BC.

The Hittite king Mursili II in his second campaign season, 1322 BC,
attacked Attarimma, Hu[wa]rsanassa, and Suruda on Arzawa's border.
Their leaders fled to Arzawa.
When Mursili II demanded their extradition, Uhha-Ziti defied him and called him a "child".
Uhha-Ziti also managed to enlist Manapa (from TARHUNTASSA) of the Seha River Land,
but not Maskhuiluwa of MILA (Miletus).

Mursili II put down a Kaska rebellion, and invaded Arzawa.
Uhha-Ziti at this time had made his base at Apasa (Ephesus).
During Mursili's march, a meteorite struck Apasa and wounded Uhha-Ziti, as recorded in the Annals of Mursili II:

"The mighty Storm God, My Lord,
showed his divinely righteous power and hurled a thunderbolt (now translated as meteorite].
All of my troops saw the thunderbolt [meteorite].
All the land of Arzawa saw the thunderbolt [meteorite].
The thunderbolt [meteorite] passed (us) and struck the land of Arzawa.
It struck Uḫḫa-ziti’s (capital) city Apaša. It settled in Uḫḫa-ziti’s knees, and he became ill."[1]

In his wounded state, Uhha-Ziti could no longer lead the charge;
therefore, having allied with the King of Ahhiuwa [A2-A-JA -the first time the "Ahhiya" are recorded with a monarch],
Uhha-Ziti ordered Piyama Kurunta (the Carian) to take the field at Walma by the Astarpa River.
Piyama Kurunta [the Carian] lost the battle,
and Uhha-Ziti and his sons fled to the nearby Ahhiuwa (A2-A-JA) -controlled islands.

Uhha-Ziti died while Mursili was besieging the men of Attarimma, Hu[wa]rsanassa, and Suruda in Puranda.

TEMPLE OF EPHESIAN ARTEMIS
unrestored 7 Wonder of the World

I propose to speak briefly of one more meteorite whose worship has had a world-wide fame: the image of the Ephesian Artemis. This worship had its centre at Ephesus, but was widely extended along the shores of the Mediterranean. Temple after temple was built on the same site at Ephesus, each superior to the preceding, until the structure was reckoned one of the seven wonders of the world. As a temple, it became the theatre of a most elaborate religious ceremonial. As an asylum, it protected from pursuit and arrest all kinds of fugitives from justice or vengeance. As a museum, it possessed some of the finest products of Greek art, notably works of Phidias and Apelles. As a bank, it received and guarded the treasures which merchants and princes from all lands brought for safe keeping. In its own right it possessed extensive lands and large revenues. The great city of Ephesus assumed as her leading title that of vewkopos, or temple-warden of Artemis, putting his name on her coins, and in her monumental inscriptions.

The image, which was the central object in this temple, was said to have fallen from heaven. Copies of it in all sizes and forms were made of gold, of silver, of bronze, of stone and of wood, by Ephesian artificers, and were supplied by them to markets in all lands. What a lifelike picture is given us in the 19th chapter of the Acts of the Apostles, of the excited crowd of Ephesians, urged on by the silversmiths, who made for sale the silver shrines of the goddess, and who saw that their craft was in danger if men learned to regard Artemis as no real divinity, and to despise the image that fell down from the sky.

We cannot suppose that the Ephesian Artemis image of the first century was a meteorite, though we have the distinct appellation, Diipetes, fallen from the sky. But I believe that there was a meteoric stone that was the original of the Ephesian images, and it seems not at all improbable that in some one of the destructions of the temple it disappeared. Or, in the progress of time, there may have been a desire to represent the goddess in a more artistic form than the shapeless stone afforded.

Many forms of the Ephesian Artemis are still preserved, and they have, amid all their variations, a certain peculiar character in common.
That common character seems to me to confirm the statement that the original image fell from heaven.
This goddess is regarded, let me say, as different from the Grecian Artemis,
the beautiful huntress so well known in Greek art, and I am speaking only of the images of the Ephesian Artemis...

wikipedia

The sacred site (temenos) at Ephesus was far older than the Artemision itself. Pausanias was certain that it antedated the Ionic immigration by many years, being older even than the oracular shrine of Apollo at Didyma.[3] He said that the pre-Ionic inhabitants of the city were Leleges and Lydians. Callimachus, in his Hymn to Artemis attributed the earliest temenos at Ephesus to the Amazons, whose worship he imagined already centered upon an image (bretas) of Artemis, their matron goddess. Pausanias says that Pindar believed the temple's founding Amazons to have been involved with the siege at Athens. Tacitus also believed in the Amazon foundation, however Pausanias believed the temple predated the Amazons.[4]

Modern archaeology cannot confirm Callimachus's Amazons, but Pausanias's account of the site's antiquity seems well-founded. Before World War I, site excavations by David George Hogarth identified three successive temple buildings.[5] Re-excavations in 1987–88[6] confirmed that the site was occupied as early as the Bronze Age, with a sequence of pottery finds that extend forward to Middle Geometric times, when a peripteral temple with a floor of hard-packed clay was constructed in the second half of the 8th century BC.[7] The peripteral temple at Ephesus offers the earliest example of a peripteral type on the coast of Asia Minor, and perhaps the earliest Greek temple surrounded by colonnades anywhere. ]


Mursili II attacks Piyama of Kurundas (the Carian), son of Uhhazitis;

Uhhazitis, king of Arzawa, flees to the islands
Uhhazitis allies himself with the king of Ahhiuwa (ACHAEANS A2-A-JA), who reside on Crete,
Tapalazunaulis, son of Uhhazatis went up into Purandas
Mursili II takes the city of Purandas
Piyama of Kurundas (the Carian), the son of Uhhazitis
comes out of the sea with the King of Ahhiyawa (ACHAEANS A2-A-JA)
and was defeated by Mursili II in a naval battle.

next events as passage above
Mursili II goes to attack Manapa of Tarhuntassa, the son of Muwa-Walwis.
Manapa of Tarhuntassa surrenders.
"I appointed Mashuiluwas in lordship at MIRA (Miletus), and I spoke as follows to Mashuiluwas:
"You, Mashuiluwas, came as a refugee before my father, and my father accepted you,
and he made you a son-in-law. He gave you Muwattis his daughter, my sister, as your wife.

Afterwards he did not stand with you, and over your enemies he did not smite.
I have stood beside you: I have smote your enemies.
Moreover I have built cities and fortified them;
I have occupied them with troops in garrison.
And I have established you as the lord of MILA."

Problems on all three sides: to the north the Gasgans, to the south Mitani (Hurrians), to the west Achaeans
Apparently Mursili II negotiates with the Egyptians in his 7th year, 1337X BCE
Nuhassi (inland from Ugarit) allies itself with Egypt (1337X BCE)
Egyptian army defeated

The Egyptian dates here may be
Amenhotep IV/Akhenaton 1442- 1425 [1367-1350]
Smenkhkare/Queen Nefertiti? 1425- 1422 [1350-1347]
Tutankhamon 1422- 1414 [1347-1339]

(Annals of Mursili II continued)

Mursili II installs Mashuiluwa as ruler of Mira (MILA-Miletus) and Kuwaliya
Mashuiluwa revolts, allies with Pitassa
Mursili II installs Kupanta of Kurunta (the Carian) as ruler of Mira (MILA-Miletus) and Kuwaliya
(Beckman, page 69)

Kupanta of Kurunta (the Carian) is the son of Muwatalli, sister of Murshili II.
(Astour, page 36)

(new LH inscription) The inscription details King Kupanta Kuruntas (the King of Carians) path to the throne of MILA (Miletus):
His father, King Mashuittas, took control of Troy after a Trojan king named Walmus was overthrown.
The inscription says that soon after that,
King Mashuittas reinstated Walmus on the Trojan throne in exchange for his loyalty to Mira (Miletus) .

Kupanta Kuruntas (the King of the Carians) became king of Mira (Miletus) after his father King Mashuittas died.
He then took control of Troy, although he wasn't the actual king of Troy.
In the inscription, Kupanta Kuruntas (the King of the Carians) describes himself as a guardian of Troy,
imploring future rulers of Troy to "guard Wilusa [an ancient name for Troy] (like) the great king (of) Mira (did)." (translation by Woudhuizen)

When Kupanta-Kurunta had reinforced his realm, just before 1190XXX BC,
he ordered his armies to storm toward the east against the vassal states of the Hittites.
After successful conquests on land,
the united forces of western Asia Minor also formed a fleet and invaded a number of coastal cities (whose names are given)
in the south and southeast of Asia Minor, as well as in Syria and Palestine.

Four great princes commanded the naval forces, among them Muksus from the Troad, the region of ancient Troy.
The Luwians from western Asia Minor advanced all the way to the borders of Egypt,
and even built a fortress at Ashkelon in southern Palestine.
A military alliance between the countries of Western Asia Minor formed under the leadership of Kupanta Kurunta (the KIng of the Carians),
the Great King of Mira, Arzawa, Šeha, and Wiluša (Helios- Ilios - Troy).

Four princes from Western Asia Minor commanded a fleet of 500 ships and 10,000 warriors against Cyprus, Karkemish, and Syria.

The military leader of the raiders was Muksus, a great prince from a neighboring town of Troy.
He later succeeded Kupanta Kurunta (The KIng of Carians).

Kuzitesup of Karkemisch eventually surrendered.
The Kings of Western Asia Minor made him their vassal.

The subsequent peace permitted both regions to flourish, Western and Southeastern Asia Minor.
In both areas, use of the Luwian language and the hieroglyphic language prevailed for several centuries.

[e.p.g.- 250 Luwian bullae have recently been excavated at Carchamesh.]

(DATE UNCERTAIN -
but Beckman concluded that mention of Kurunta and Madduwatta's attack on him,
together with mention of installation of Kurunta as King of Tarhunta place events
in it later, under Hatusili III. Most likely it belongs here.)

INDICTMENT OF MADDUWATTA (Part 1)
Attarasiya (Atreus) of Ahiya (Achaeans) [this is Linear B a2-a-ja from the Knossos Palace archive- e.p.g.]
chased Madduwatta from Madduwatta's land
King's father (Mursili II) gave Madduwatta Zippasla (Sipylus)
King's father (Mursili II) offered Madduwatta Mount Hariyati,
closer to Hatti.
But Madduwatta refused.
The King's father (Mursili II) asked Madduwatta
to attack Kupanta of Kurunta (the Carian)
ruler of Arzawa
The King's father (Mursili II) also specifically enjoined Madduwatta
not to form alliance with Attarasiya (Atreus)
Madduwatta attacks Kupanta of Kurunta (the King of the Carians), ruler of Arzawa
Arzawa counterattacks, destroys Madduwatta's army.
The King's father (Mursili II) sends Piseni and Puskurunuwa,
attacks city of Sallawasi.
King's father (Mursili II) regains Madduwatta's goods.

Attarasiya (Atreus) plans attack on Madduwatta
The King's father (Mursili II) dispatches
Kisnalpi to attack Attarasiya
One officer of Attarasiya killed
One officer of Hatti, Zidanzash, killed
Attarasiya returns to his own land

[Zidanzash appears in the sacrificial list E with two known sons of Suppililuliumash, died 1346 BCE.
Otten assigned the Indictment of Madduwatta to the reign of Arnuwandash I. Astour, page 32
It seems it must belong here - e.p.g.]

INDICTMENT OF MADDUWATTA (Part 2)

Dalawa (Classical Tlos?) attacks
Madduwatta asks
Kisnalpi to attack Hinduwa
while he attacks Dalawa.
Madduwatta betrays Kisnalpi,
does not attack Dalawa,
but instead tells Dalawa about Kisnalpi's location.
Kisnalpi and Partahulla killed by Dalawa.
Madduwatta turns Dalawa away from Hatti and into his subjects.
Madduwatta gives his daughter in marriage to Kupanta of Kurunta (the King of the Carians)
Madduwatta takes all the land of Arzawa
(Beckman, page 144 et seq)

installs Targasnalli as ruler of Hapisala
(Beckman, page 64)

conquers Gasgan city of Asharpayain north,
which controls road to Pala
good relations with Ahhiyawa (Achaeans)
(Lehmann, page 232)

problems with Ahhiyawa prince Tawagalawas (Eteocles)
(Lehmann, page 233)


30) Muwatalli 1315-1282
(greek Motlylos)
moves Hittite capitol to Dattassa
Hattusili III sets up kingdom at Hakmis on northern border
Amurru in Syria/Lebanon defects to Egyptians
Hattusili III sends Gasgan mercenaries to Muwatalli
for fight with Ramses II at Kadesh 1285 BCE.
(Lehmann, pages 236-241)

INDICTMENT OF MADDUWATTA (Part 3)
Madduwatta tells King (Muwatalli) that he will conquer Hapalla for him.
Madduwatta takes all of Hapalla for himself.
Madduwatta asked for passage
but then tried to attack the Hittite army.
Antahitta and Mazlawa, ruler of Kuwaliya witnessed this
Madduwatta takes from Hatti:
The land of Zumanti
the land of Wallarimma
the land of Iyalanti
the land of Zumarri
the land of Mutamutassa
the land of Attarima
the land of Suruta
the land of Hursanassa
the city of Upnihuwala
King (Muwatalli) brings army out of land of Salpi
attacks Madduwatta.
Madduwatta enlists aid of city of Pitassa.
Madduwatta tries to enlist the aid of Kupanta of Kurunta (the King of the Carians) and Arzawa.
King (Muwatalli) sends his staff bearer (ambassador-mesenger) Zuwa
Madduwatta kills him.

Madduwatta burns down the city of Marasa

King (Muwatalli) sends his staff bearer (ambassador-mesenger) Mulliyara
Demands return of land of Hapalla
Madduwatta returns Hapalla, but keeps
the land of Iyalanti
the land of Zumarri
the land of Wallarimma

King (Muwatalli) dispatches his staff bearer (ambassador-mesenger) Mulliyara
Madduwatta claims control over Niwalla,
claiming he is retainer of Piseni
King (Muwatalli) asks
Madduwatta to stop raiding Alashiya (Cyprus)
with Attarasiya and the ruler of Piggaya (Phthia, Achilles home?)
Madduwatta claims that
he did not know that Alashiya was subject to Hatti
(Beckman, page 144 et seq)

Arzawa attacks Wilusa (Ilios) and Hatti
Alaksandru (Alexander - Paris) asks Muwatalli for help
(Beckman, page 83)

Stephanus of Byzantium records that
Paris and Helen encounter founder of Samylia in Caria
on their way to Troy, King Motylos, or Muwatalli (Muwatallish, Astour)
(Lehmann, page 233)

Henriksson, Goran
June 11, in 1312 BCE. FALL OF TROY (Wilusa) -
My date is now fully supported by the latest results from the German-American excavation that identifies the fall of Homer's Troy with the destruction of the archaeological layer Troy VIh, dated to about 1300 BC. In this paper an attempt is made to identify the strange obscuration of the sun that occurred during the final battle of the Iliad as a total solar eclipse close to the southern border of the zone of totality. There exists only one solar eclipse that corresponds to the description in the text and this is the total solar eclipse of June 11, in 1312 BC.

When I first presented this date in 1986, there was a difference of about 60 years compared with the most common archaeological dating at that time. My date is now fully supported by the latest results from the German-American excavation that identifies the fall of Homer's Troy with the destruction of the archaeological layer Troy VIh, dated to about 1300 BC. Further independent support is provided by another solar eclipse that dates the reign of the Hittite king Muwatalli II. This king wrote a letter to king Alaksandu in Wilusa, identified as the Hittite name for Ilios, the most frequently used name for Troy in the Iliad. Alexander was another name for Paris who abducted Helen, the crime that resulted in the war.

Muwatalli II was king 1379-1358 Hittite Middle Chronology (1315-1297 BCE, Hittite low chronology), according to the chronology for the Hittite Kingdom based on a solar eclipse in 1335 BC (but as this was an iron asteroid impact at Ephesus, one has to use the same astronomical phenomenon Astour used to establish Hittite chronology, a phenomenon which also occurred 64 years earlier), during the tenth year of King Mursili II, the father of Muwatalli II.


31) Urhi-Teshub 1281-1282 BCE
a concubines son who styles himself Mursili III
returns the Hittite capitol to Hattusa.
(Lehmann, page 242)

BATTLE OF KADESH - 1344 BCE
Ramesses II 1349 - 1274 [1290-1224] (1365 - 1299)
Now then, his majesty had prepared his infantry, his chariotry, and the Sherden of his majesty's capturing,...
1344 BCE

in the Year 5, 2nd month of the third season, day 9, his majesty passed the fortress of Sile. [and entered Canaan] ...

Hittite allies
Egyptian Name Location
Ḥt Ḥatti (central Anatolia)
Nhrn Nahrin = Mitanni (Hurri)
I҆rṭw Arzawa (western Anatolia)
Pds Pitassa (central Anatolia)
Drdny Dardania (allies of the Trojans, [48] northwest Anatolia)
Ms Masa (Mysia, northwest Anatolia)
Krkš Karkisa (Anatolia)
Krkmš Carchemish, in Syria
Qd A poorly defined area in northern Syria
Qdš Kadesh (in Syria)
Ꜥkrṭ Ugarit (in north Syria)
Mwšꜣnt Mushanet (Unknown)
Kškš Kaska (northern Anatolia)
Lk Lukka lands (Lycia and Caria, southwest Anatolia)
Qḍwdn Kizzuwatna (Cilicia)
Nwgs Nuḥḥašši (in Syria)
I҆rwnt (sic!) Arawanna (In Anatolia)
Ḥlb Ḥalba (Aleppo, in Syria. Led by its king, Talmi-Sarruma, grandson of Suppiluliuma I.)
I҆ns Inesa (Unknown, possibly Neša in central Anatolia)

32) Hattusili III 1282-1251
deposes Urhi-Teshub, who flees to Egypt.
Hattusili III concludes treaty with Ramesses II 1349 - 1274 [1290-1224] (1365 - 1299)]
(Lehmann, page 242)
1283 BCE Treaty with Ramses II concluded
(Astour, page 65)
treaty gives 3rd greatest weight to "gods of Kizzuwadna".
(Lehmann, page 245)
[Kizzuwadna = Hyksos? e.p.g.]

Treaty -
Those fleeing to Egypt to be returned to Hatti (Urhi-Tessub)
Amuru recognized by Egypt as Hittite appenage - Benteshina King of Amuru

Adad-nirari asks Hattusili III for
"good iron" from the city of Kizzuwatna.
(Beckman, page 139)
["good iron" is most likely steel, possibly meteoritic steel - e.p.g.]

Hattusili III deposes Urhi-Teshub
installs Kurunta (of Caria) as king of Tarhuntassa
(Beckman, page 108)
[witnesses to this treaty
may indicate military defeat - e.p.g.]

Hattusili III pits Babylonians against Assyrians
(Lehmann, page 248)

EGYPTIAN BATTLE WITH LIBYANS - 1279 BCE
Merneptah 1274 - 1264 {1299 - 1289} [1224-1214]
Great Karnak Inscription narrative Eqwesh, Lukka, Shekelesh, Sherden, Teresh
Eqwesh {Acaeans} (of the countries of the sea),[31] possibly also Sherden and Sheklesh[38]
Athribis Stele: Eqwesh, Shekelesh, Sherden, Teresh, Eqwesh [Achaeans] (of the countries of the sea)[31][38]

33) Tudhaliya IV (1250-1220)

fights Ahhijawa
fights Arzawa
(Lehmann, page 249)

Assyria attacks Hanigalbat
Elhi-Sharrumma king of Isuwa.
Halpa-ziti king of Aleppo
(Beckman, page 142)

Tudhaliya IV (1250-1220) recognizes
King of Egypt,
King of Babylonia,
King of Assyria, and
King of Ahhijawa (Achaeans) as his equals
Assyria at war with Hatti
(Beckman, page 101)

The Yalburt Water Monument, measuring 13 by 8 meters, includes 20 stone blocks detailing the actions of Tudhaliya IV, who reigned from 1237-1209 BC.

The hieroglyphics recount a military campaign Tudhaliya IV made to southwest Anatolia, Selçuk University Professor Hasan Bahar told Anadolu Agency.

"Here [Tudhaliya IV] talks of the cities he saw," said Bahar, describing the hieroglyphics.
"It looks like at the pool he was giving an account to the people."

Hittite society was not democratic, but the actions of the king to his people show an orderly society, Bahar said.

The pool was first unearthed in 1970 during work on the Ilgın district's water system.

Tudhaliya IV was a king of the Hittite Empire, which was centered in Anatolia but reached parts of northern Levant and Upper Mesotamia.

To cope with a severe drought, he built 13 dams, one of which survives to this day at Alacahöyük, in Turkey's Çorum Province.

Tudhaliya IV was defeated in battle in 1230 BC [date?] by Tukulti-Ninurta I of Assyria.


34) Arnuwanda 1219 BCE (Spurious?)
(Lehmann, page 295, not Astour nor Beckman)


35) Suppiluliama IV 1190 BCE
many desertions, requires loyalty oaths
(Lehmann, page 295)

Sea peoples conquer Hittites
Ramesses III 1232-1201 {1257-1226} [1182-1151]
Medinet Habu narrative
Denyen, Peleset, Shekelesh, Sherden, Teresh, Tjekker, Weshesh, Teresh (of the sea), Sherden (of the sea)[39]


"The foreigners conspired together on their islands.
All of a sudden, the countries vanished and were dispersed in battle.
No country withstood the force of their arms.
Hatti, Kode (Kizzuwadna?), Carchemish, Arzawa, and Alashiya (Cyprus) -
All were swiftly laid waste.
A camp was pitched at a place in Amurru (Northern Lebanon).
They destroyed its people, and its land was as if it had never been.
They drew near Egypt with fire going on before...
(Lehmann, pages 291-292)

Letter from Ugarit lists invaders and speaks of famine
(Lehmann, page 293)

Other Egyptian records of the Sea Peoples:

Papyrus Harris I Denyen, Peleset, Sherden, Tjekker, Weshesh, (Denyen (in their isles), Weshesh (of the sea))[28]
linked with Ramses III account
Rhetorical Stela Peleset, Teresh no location given
Onomasticon of Amenope List (no narrative) Denyen, Lukka, Peleset, Sherden, Tjekker no location given
Last edited by E.P. Grondine on Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:04 am, edited 54 times in total.
Usually people believe what they want to believe until reality intrudes.
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Re: Luwian notes

Postby E.P. Grondine » Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:04 am

EGYPTIAN CHRONOLOGY.

The Conventional Chronology of the New Kingdom was/is often commonly used,

Gardiner, 1966; Penguin, 1983; Reeves & Wilkinson, 1996;
XVIII Dynasty
Ahmose I 1575-1550; 1570-1546; 1550-1525
Amenhotep I 1550-1528; 1551-1524; 1525-1504
Thutmose I 1528-1510; 1524-1518; 1504-1492
Thutmose II 1510-1490; 1518-1504; 1492-1479
Thutmose III 1490-1436; 1504-1450; 1479-1425
Battle of Megiddo, c.1478
Queen Hatshepsut 1490-1468; 1498-1483; 1473-1458

Amenhotep II 1436-1413; 1453-1419; 1427-1401
Thutmose IV 1413-1405; 1419-1386; 1401-1391
Amenhotep III 1405-1367; 1386-1349; 1391-1353
Amenhotep IV/
Akhenaton 1367-1350; 1350-1334; 1353-1333
Smenkhkare/
Queen Nefertiti? 1350-1347; 1336-1334; 1335-1333
Tutankhamon 1347-1339; 1334-1325; 1333-1323
Aye 1339-1335; 1325-1321; 1323-1319
Haremhab 1335-1308; 1321-1293; 1319-1307

XIX Dynasty
Ramesses I 1308 1293-1291 1307-1306
Seti I 1309-1291 1291-1278 1306-1290
Ramesses II 1290-1224 1279-1212 1290-1224
Battle of Qadesh, 1275;
Egyptian-Hittite Treaty, 1259
Merenptah 1224-1214 1212-1202 1224-1214
Amenmesse(s) ? 1202-1199 1214-1210
Seti II 1214-1208 1199-1193 1210-1204
Siptah 1208-1202 1193-1187 1204-1198
Queen Twosret 1202-1194 1187-1185 1198-1196

XX Dynasty
Setnakht 1184-1182 1185-1182 1196-1194
Ramesses III 1182-1151 1182-1151 1194-1163
Ramesses IV 1151-1145 1151-1145 1163-1156
Ramesses V 1145-1141 1145-1141 1156-1151
Ramesses VI 1141-1134 1141-1133 1151-1143
Ramesses VII 1134 ? 1143-1136
Ramesses VIII 1134 ? 1136-1131
Ramesses IX 1134-1117 1126-1108 1131-1112
Ramesses X 1117-1114 ? 1112-1100
Ramesses XI 1114-1087 1098-1070 1100-1070

Rohl, whose chronology is crap, points out the old astronomical records used to establish this chronology:

"Rohl also asserts that the record in the Ebers Papyrus of the rising of Sirius in the ninth regnal year of Amenhotep I, which is used in conventional chronology to fix that year to either 1542 BC or 1517 BC, has been misread, and instead should be understood as evidence for a reform in the Egyptian calendar.

This negative view of Papyrus Ebers is exemplified in a statement by Professor Jürgen von Beckerath who is of the opinion that "The calendar on the verso of the Ebers Medical Papyrus is by now so disputed that we must ask ourselves whether we really possess a sure basis for the chronology of this period of Egyptian history which is, after all, of the greatest importance for fixing the sequence of historical events, as well as for neighbouring countries".[8]

Professor Wolfgang Helck concludes that "We therefore think it is safer to start from the regnal dates rather than from interpretations of real or supposed Sirius (Sothic) or New Moon dates".[9]

Papyrus Leiden I.350, which dates to the 52nd year of Ramesses II,
records a lunar observation which places that year of Ramesses' reign in one of 1278, 1253, 1228 or 1203 BC
within the date-range of the conventional chronology.
Having questioned the value of the Ebers Papyrus, Rohl argues that, since the lunar cycle repeats itself every twenty-five years, it is only useful for fine tuning a chronology and could equally apply to dates 300 years later as in the New Chronology."

OR BETTER, WE COULD MOVE RAMSSES II DATES BACK BY 50 OR 75 YEARS.

THERA ERUPTION - 1628 BCE

Let's start with the Ahmose I tempest stela
which is tied to the eruption of Thera in 1628 BCE:

Fragments of the stela were found in the third pylon of the Karnak temple.
They are thought to predate the 22nd year of Ahmose I.

////////////// the gods expressed their discontent /////////
The gods (made?) the sky come with a tempest of (rain?); it caused darkness in the Western region;
the sky was unleashed, without ///// ///// more than the roar of the crowd; /////
was powerful ////// on the mountains more than the turbulence of the cataract which is at Elephantine.

Each house, ///// each shelter (or each covered place) that they reached //////// //////
were floating in the water like the barks of papyrus (on the outside?) of the royal residence for ///////// day(s),
with no one able to light the torch anywhere.

Then His Majesty said: 'How these (events) surpass the power of the great god [the Pharaoh?] and the wills of the divinities!'
And His Majesty descended [the Nile} in his boat, his council following him.
The (people were?) at the east and the west, silent,
for they had no more clothes (?) on them after the power of the god was manifested.

Then His Majesty arrived in Thebes /////// this statue; it received what it had desired.
His Majesty set about to strengthen the two lands, to cause the water to evacuate without (the aid of) his (men?),
to provide them with silver, with gold, with copper, with oil, with clothing, with all the products they desired;
after which His Majesty rested in the palace - life, health, strength. -
It was then that His Majesty was informed that the funerary concessions had been invaded (by the water),
that the sepulchral chambers had been damaged,
that the structures of funerary enclosures had been undermined,
that the pyramids had collapsed(?)
all that existed had been annihilated.

His Majesty then ordered the repair of the chapels which had fallen in ruins in all the country,
restoration of the monuments of the gods, the re-erection of their precincts,
the replacement of the sacred objects in the room of appearances, the re-closing of the secret place,
the re-introduction into their naoi of the statues which were lying on the ground,
the re-erection of the fire altars, the replacement of the offering tables back on their feet, to assure them the provision of offerings,
the augmentation of the revenues of the personnel, the restoration of the country to its former state.
They carried out everything, as the king had ordered it.

notes
-tempest: rain storms are extremely infrequent in Egypt.
Some have therefore speculated that this instance was caused by the eruption of the volcano on Thera.

In a rainless country like Egypt the soil is baked hard and becomes imperviable to water.
The effects of even small amounts of rain are much greater than in the well aereated soils of the temperate zone, as none of the water is absorbed,
and, running off, it can create short-lived but dangerous torrents.

-barks of papyrus: boat-shaped rafts made of papyrus reeds.wills of the divinities:
- the gods (with the possible exception of Seth in later periods when he had become the Adversary) purpose was to impose order on the world. To this end they installed the pharaoh as their representative.
-statue: apparently the statue of a god, which in Egypt was more than a mere image, it was a manifestation of the deity.
-the two lands: Upper and Lower Egypt


The Thera eruption. This is a famous conundrum not just in Egyptian but also in Aegean (Minoan) chronology, as the radiocarbon date for the eruption,
between 1627 and 1600 BC (p=5%),[12] is off by a full century compared to the date traditionally accepted in archaeology of c. 1500 BC.[13][14][15]
Since 2012, there have been suggestions that the solution lies in adjustment of both dates towards a "compromise" date in the mid 16th century BC,[16]
but as of 2014 the problem has not been satisfactorily resolved.

It gets worse, as tree ring data (and I seem to remember ice core data as well indicate 1628 BCE.)
EGYPTIAN CHRONOLOGY - 50 AND 75 YEAR ADJUSTMENTS

Gardiner, 1966 50 and 75 year adjustments:

XVIII Dynasty
Ahmose I 1625-1600 {1650 - 1625} [1575-1550]
Amenhotep I 1600-1578 {1625 - 1603} [1550-1528]
Thutmose I 1578-1560 {1608 - 1585} [1528-1510]
Thutmose II 1560-1540 {1585 - 1565} [1510-1490]
Thutmose III 1540 - 1486 {1565 - 1511} [1490-1436]
Battle of Megiddo, c.1528 {1553} [c.1478]
Queen Hatshepsut 1540-1518 {1565-1543} [1490-1468]

Amenhotep II 1486- 1463 {1511- 1488} [1436-1413]
Thutmose IV 1463- 1455 {1488- 1480} [1413-1405]
Amenhotep III 1455- 1417 {1480- 1442} [1405-1367]
Amenhotep IV/Akhenaton 1427- 1400 {1442- 1425} [1367-1350
Smenkhkare/Queen Nefertiti? 1400- 1397 {1425-1422} [1350-1347]
Tutankhamon 1397- 1389 {1422- 1414} [1347-1339]
Aye 1389-1385 {1414-1410} [1339-1335]
Haremhab 1385- 1358 {1410- 1383} [1335-1308]

XIX Dynasty
Ramesses I 1358 {1383} [1308]
Seti I 1359-1341 {1385-1366} [1309-1291]
Ramesses II 1349 - 1274 {1365 - 1299} [1290-1224]
Battle of Qadesh, 1325 {1350} [1275];
Egyptian-Hittite Treaty, 1309 {1334} [1259]
Merenptah 1274 - 1264 {1299 - 1289} [1224-1214]
Amenmesse(s) ? 1252-1249 {1277 -1274} [? 1202-1199 1214-1210 ]
Seti II 1264-1258 {1289-1283} [1214-1208]
Siptah 1258-1252 {1283-1277} [1208-1202]
Queen Twosret 1252- 1244 {1277- 1269} [1202-1194]

XX Dynasty
Setnakht 1234- 1232 {1259- 1257} [1184-1182]
Ramesses III 1232-1201 {1257-1226} [1182-1151]
Ramesses IV 1201-1195 {1226-1220} [1151-1145]
Ramesses V 1195- 1191 {1220- 1216} [1145-1141]
Ramesses VI 1191-1184 {1216-1209} [1141-1134]
Ramesses VII 1184 {1209} [1134]
Ramesses VIII 1184 {1209} [1134]
Ramesses IX 1184- 1167 {1209- 1192} [1134-1117]
Ramesses X 1167-1164 {1192-1189} [1117-1114]
Ramesses XI 1164 - 1137[ {1190 - 1162} [1114-1087]
Last edited by E.P. Grondine on Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:31 am, edited 21 times in total.
Usually people believe what they want to believe until reality intrudes.
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Re: Luwian notes

Postby E.P. Grondine » Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:19 am

It appears that the passage of Comet Encke's debris chain through the inner solar system led to collisions with several asteroids,
and their impact with the Earth.

ANOTHER CONTEMPORARY ACCOUNT OF THE JOSHUA IMPACT

More useful for chronological work is the Joshua Impact

From the evidence, it appears that there was an impact event in about 1584 BC,
just to the west of what is now Jerusalem,
and that this Nagasaki-sized impact destroyed the military forces of a large number of Hittite appenages,
which were under the command of the Hittite king T'Hantilish, known to the Greeks as Tantalus

Murshilish I marches on Babylon in 1595 BC, but on his way home he is
attacked and defeated by the Hurrians. There is a treaty (KUB XXXVI 106 +
KBo IX 73) with "hapiru" ("raiders") which was concluded by either Murshilish
now, or by his successor Hantilish, some time after Hantilish's murder of
Murshilish in 1594 BC and his seizure of the throne.

It is important to note that exactly who the "hapiru" were remains another
issue very hotly contested today. The earlier use by cuneiform scribes of
"hapiru" to indicate a type of vassal seems to be entirely consistent with
the role of the ancient Israelites as vassals of the "Hyksos", the
people who had earlier seized control of Egypt; and as will be seen shortly,
the Israelites are referred to as "hapiru" in other contemporaneous
documents.

Hantilish, after his murder of Murshilish I, also campaigns against the
Hurrians, but the Hurri defeat him and take his queen and heirs to Shugziya
and kill them. (Edict of Telepinush, 15-17) According to the fragmentary record
KBo III 46, someone dies in Shugziya, after the death of 3 Hittite
commanders, and an unnamed Hittite king assembles 3000 "Hapiru" men and
garrisons them in a (name lost) city. (Astour, page 87)

Filling in the breaks in this series of extremely fragmentary
contemporaneous Hittite records, we also have a third document, a nearly
complete contemporaneous account of the events,

THE AKKADIAN TESTAMENT OF IDRIMI ILIM ILIMNA OF ALALAH

In Indrimi's version of events, a series of disputes breaks out
(which probably arose as a result the Hittite King Murshilishi I's conquest of Aleppo in 1595 BCE),
and he flees Aleppo to the city of Emar, from which he is also forced to flee.

Idrimi finally find refuge for 7 years with the "hapiru" at Ammija in Canaan,
along with others from Aleppo, Muksis, Nihi, and Amae.
During these 7 years Idrimi and the "hapiru" are in conflict with Barrattarna, the King of the Hurrians (biblical Horim).

After these 7 years,
"Teshub" the sky god favors Idrimi because of his pious worship.
THIS IS A MENTION OF THE JOSHUA IMPACT EVENT IN A CONTEMPORARY ACCOUNT.
An approximate date for the impact event may be derived by moving
some 7+ years from 1595 BCE, the date of Murshilish I's conquest of Aleppo,
say sometime immediately after 1588 BCE.

Following the impact, Idrimi builds ships at the harbor of Nulla
(with the sabe (Erin mesh), also used to describe the "hapiru")
and attacks and conquers the cities of Alalah, Muksis, Amae, and Nihi.
Now independent of the "hapiru" and running his own kingdom,
Idrimi betrays them and makes peace with Barattarna, the King of the Hurrians.

Then, as Idrimi put it, the "kings to his right and left came against him".
Who exactly these kings were is not clear, but most likely they included
Hantilish, King of the Hittites, Hantilish's new "allies" the Israelites, the "hapiru",
as both were common enemies of the Hurrians,
and Thutmose I of Egypt, who was the enemy of the Hittites, Hurrians, and the "hapiru", the Israelites.

If this makes it any clearer,
what we are dealing with here is a 5 sided conflict which occurred after the explosion of Thera
between the Hittites, Hurrians, Aleppans, Israelites, and Egyptians
for control of the northern Syrian ports and these ports' links to the Euphrates River and thus to the valuable trade with the east.

Though under attack, Idrimi tells us that he defeated all his enemies and
left their bodies piled on the ground, as his father had done.
Now secure against attack, Idrimi goes on to attack the Hittite vassal cities of
Passahe, Damrut-re-i, Hulahhan, Zise, Ie, Uluzila, and Zarana,
and he uses the wealth of these cities to build his kingdom at Alalah.

(For a transcription, translation, and commentary on Idrimi's testament, see
Die Inschrift der Statue des Konigs Idirmi von Alalah, M. Dietrich and O.
Loretz, Ugarit Forschungen, Band 13, 1981, p 201-268.)

The destruction of the Minoan vassal forces under the Hittite King Hantilish's command
left their home lands defenceless, and easy prey for the Myceneans.

AN EGYPTIAN RECORD OF AN IMPACT EVENT
Menkheperre, son of Re, Thutmose, ruler of Thebes,
Thutmose III 1540 - 1486 {1565 - 1511} [1490-1436]

Gebal Barkel Inscription -
1490-1436

Description of act of offering
A water offering given for Amen-Re.

Caption for the image of the king
He does it so that life will be given (him).
He shall be at the head of the ka's of all the living, appearing glorious as king of Upper and Lower Egypt on the throne of Horus like Re.

Speech of Amen-Re
Amen-Re on the summit of the Pure Mountain says:
I have given you the kingship over both lands.

Description of act of offering
Offering wine for Amen-Re.
He does it so that life may be given (him).

Caption for the image of the king
He (the king) is at the head of the ka's of all the living,
having appeared glorious as king of Upper and Lower Egypt (in) Upper and Lower Egypt.

Speech of Amen-Re
[///////] (Amen-Re) says: I have given you all the lands and foreign countries.
Words spoken: I have given you all [/////////]

MAIN INSCRIPTION
Thutmose III 1540 - 1486

1493 BCE
In the year 47, month 3 of the season of inundation, day 10, under the majesty of the Horus mighty bull,
appeared glorious in Thebes, under the two ladies enduring in kingship like Re in the heavens,
Gold Horus, holy in appearance, mighty in power, king of Upper and Lower Egypt
Menkheperre, beloved son of his body of Re, lord over every foreign land, Thutmose, beautiful of being.
.
He built as memorial for his father Amen-Re, lord of thrones and of both lands,
the fortress "Killing the Desert Dwellers".
He made for him a resting place for eternity, as he augmented the victories of my majesty more than for every other king who had been.

I seized the Southerners on the command of his ka and the Northerners according to his instruction.

He created the son of Re, Thutmose, ruler of Thebes, may life be given (him) like Re, eternally,
the good god who grasps with his hand, who beats the Southerners,
who beheads the Northerners, who smashes the skulls of the enemies of Egypt,
who slaughters the bedouins of Asia,
who strikes the rebels among the sand dwellers,
who vanquishes the lands of the far north,
who beats the inhabitants of Nubia,
who reached the borders of the foreign lands which attacked him.

On the battlefield he attacks, raging.
All the foreign lands stood together as one ready to fight, there was no escape, for they trusted their numerous warriors.
There was no end to men and horses.
When they came their hearts were courageous and no fear was in their hearts.
The powerful one cast them down, strong of arm, trampling down his enemies.
He is the king who fights alone, no throng is surrounding his heart.
He is more courageous than millions in the great army,
one does not find his like, a warrior, courageous on the battlefield, one can not resist him.
He fights with both his arms against all foreign countries at the front of his army.

He flashes like a star crossing the sky between two troops of bowmen.
[note that the "Nine Bowmen" was a general Egyptian term for foreigners]
As soon as he enters the fray his attack is indeed like a flame.
He extinguishes them completely and they lie in their blood.
It is his akh spirit which casts them down for him, his flame casts down his enemies.

THE NAHARIN CAMPAIGNI

The numerous army of Mitanni (the Hurrians) is cast down in one hour.
They have disappeared completely as those who never were, like an end of (by) the Devourer,
by act of the arms of the great good god, strong in battle, who causes slaughter among everyone.
He is for himself alone the king of Upper and Lower Egypt, Menkheperre, may he live forever.
He is the Horus of (with) a powerful arm, an excellent fortress for his army, a refuge for the (his) subjects,
who attacks all countries in a battle face to face, who frees Egypt on the battlefield,
a protector who does not fear the greedy.
He is a strong-willed bull.
His southern borders (reach) to the "Horn of the Earth" to the south of this land,
the northern to the far north of Asia, to the pillars of the heavens.
They come to him with bowed head in search of his breath of life. -

He is a king, strong like Monthu, who robs, but no one has robbed him,
who tramples all foreign lands that rebel,
without one who could protect them in that land of Naharin that his lord had left for fear.
I destroyed his cities and his settlements and I set fire to them.
My Majesty turned them into ruins, so that they could not be rebuilt.
I captured all their people, who were carried off as prisoners, and the cattle thereof without bound, and likewise their property.
I took their corn, I tore out their barley. I felled their trees and all their fruit-trees.
Their region was [killed(?)], my majesty destroyed it.
It has become a burned place where there are no trees.

And my Majesty sailed to the northern border of Asia.
My Majesty ordered that many ships be built of cedar from the mountains of God's Land in the neighborhood of the Mistress of Byblos.
They were placed on wagons towed by bulls.
They travelled ahead of my Majesty
to ferry across that river that is between this foreign land and Naharin
- a king to be boasted of because of his two arms in melee,
and who crossed the Euphrates River after them who had attacked him,
as the first of his army while seeking that miserable enemy in the foreign lands of Mitanni (Hurrians),
while he fled for fear before His Majesty to another land, a far place.

Then my Majesty established my stele on that mountain of Naharin,
as one extracted from the mountain on the western side of the Euphrates.
I have no enemy in the southern lands,
the northerners come bowing because of my might.
It is Re who has commanded them to me.
I enclosed that which his eye encircled. He gave me the land in its length and breadth.

I have bound together the Nine Bows, islands in the middle of the sea,
the Nine Bow peoples and the rebellious foreign lands.
[note that the "Nine Bowmen" was a general Egyptian term for foreigners]
I returned south to the beloved land, after I had subdued Naharin.

Fear was great in the mouth of the Sanddwellers.
Therefore their doors were closed, and they did not step out of their door for fear of the bull.
A king he is, strong, an excellent fortress for his army, a wall of metal of the sky [meteoritic steel].
He seizes every land with his power without there being millions of men around him,
who shoots accurately whenever he aims,
whose arrows do not miss; strong, there was none like him,
Monthu, strong on the battlefield.

Another feat of prowess which Re commanded me:
He granted me another brave deed by the sea of Ny.
He made me drive together a herd of elephants.
My Majesty fought them, they being a herd of 120 elephants.
Never had the like been done by a king since the god who had seized the white crown of Upper Egypt.
I said this without boasting with it, and without a lie therein.
I did it according to what my father, Amun-Re, lord of the thrones of the two lands, commanded me,
who guided My Majesty on the good path by his effective plans.
He united for me the Black Land and the Red Land, and that which the sun encircles is in my grasp.
on the first campaign.

I am reporting to you now, listen, people!
He gave to me the foreign countries of Retenuariots (southern Syria) with 330 chiefs, every one there with his army.
They were ready in the Wadi Qanu, massed together.
An excellent exploit was made by me among them.
My Majesty attacked them, they immediately fled and fell in droves.
They entered Megiddo;
my Majesty enclosed them for a period of 7 months,
before they came out, imploring my Majesty with the words:
"Give us your breath, our lord!

The desert dwellers of Retenu(southern Syria) will not rebel again."

The battle of Megiddo
-Retenu: southern Syria
-millions of men, hundreds of thousands of the best: exaggeration was the least of sins committed by ancient kings.
-breath: the breath of life.

Then he caused that enemy together with the chiefs who were with him,
to be brought before my Majesty, all their children, with many gifts of gold and silver,
all their horses that were with them, their great chariots of gold and silver, (also) those painted brightly,
all battle tunics, their bows and their arrows, all their weapons.
This was what they had come to war with and threatened my Majesty.
They brought it as tribute to my Majesty.
They stood on their walls in order to give praise to my Majesty, begging that the breath of life may be given them.
Then my Majesty made them swear an oath of loyalty, in these words:
"We shall not do evil again to Menkheperre, may he live forever, our lord, for the period of our life, for we have seen his power.
He gave us the breath of life, according to his wish."

It was my father Amen-Re, lord of thrones of both lands, who has accomplished it, not the arm of men.
Then my Majesty caused them to be given free passage (lit. the road) to their cities.
They all left on donkeys, for I had taken their horses.
I captured the inhabitants for Egypt and their possessions as well.
It was my father Amen-Re, lord of the thrones of both lands, who has accomplished it, the excellent god, successful in deeds, his plans do not fail.

My Majesty came in order to seize the countries and inhabitants of foreign lands, completely.
I threw them down, obeying his command, because he did it this way.
He caused me to strike all inhabitants of foreign lands, not one who dared to approach me.
It was my mace which felled the Asiatics, it was my Ames sceptre that struck the Nine Bows.
[note that the "Nine Bowmen" was a general Egyptian term for foreigners]

My Majesty subdued every land,
Retenu (southern Syria) is under my sandals,
the Nubians are slaves of my Majesty.

They pay me (tribute) as one (man),
being taxable millions of times in numerous things of the top of the earth,
much gold from Wawat, its amount without bounds.
One built there for the palace every year
Eight-boats and many transporters for the crews, beside the tribute, the Nubians bring ivory and ebony.
Precious wood from Kush was brought to me as beams of doum palms and wooden things without number as acacia wood from the Southland.
My army made them in Kush, which existed there in millions,
besides Eight-boats and many transporters made of doum palms which my Majesty had fetched by force.
One built for me in Djahi every year, from genuine cedars of the Lebanon, which were brought to the palace, l.p.h.
Precious wood came to me to Egypt, taken to the south, /////
genuine cedars from the Lebanon as the best from God's Land which was delivered,
the best wood like hard alabaster,
to be delivered to the residence, without letting go by the appropriate season every year.
My army arrives, which is as garrison in Wan Rata. ////////

(made) of cedar wood of the victories of my Majesty according to the plans of my father Amen-Re,
who has given me the rule over all foreign peoples.
I gave nothing of it to the Asiatics; this is the timber which he loves.
He subdued them, they recognized my lord, their suffering was ended.

//////////// my Majesty. Listen, people of the southern land, which is by the Gebel Barkal,
called the "Throne of Both Lands" by the people before it was known.
Oh, you shall learn of this miracle of Amen-Re before of the two lands, completely /////////////
[THERE WERE TWO HOUR-WATCHERS;
THEN A STAR CAME FROM THE SOUTH OF THEM. THE LIKE HAD NEVER HAPPENED.
IT BEAMED TOWARDS THEM FROM ITS POSITION.
NOT ONE REMAINED STANDING THERE]

When the guards were just about to come in order to meet at night and to keep the regular watch,
it was at the second hour,
a star appeared to their south.
Never had the like happened. It shone exactly towards them.
None withstood there.

I killed them like those who had never been, they lay in their blood, enemies in heaps(?).
BUT NOW THE SNAKE WAS BEHIND THEIR BACKS WITH FLAME TOWARDS THEIR FACES,
not one found his hand among them, not one looked back.
Their horse teams were no more, they had bolted in /// /// the desert. /////////////////////////////
in order to make that all inhabitants of foreign lands see the might of my Majesty.

I returned south with a happy heart,
after I had celebrated a feast for my lord Amen-Re, lord of the thrones of the two lands,
who had commanded this victory and had caused the panic ////////////////////// in my time.
He instilled fear of me among all inhabitants of foreign lands.
They fled far before me.
Everything on which the sun shines is bound under my soles.

My Majesty himself says /////////////////////////// [victory],
for I am very experienced in power and victory,
which my noble father Amen, lord of the thrones of both lands, has granted me.
He made me master of the five parts, of that which the sun encircles.
I am str[ong] //////////////////////

[the northern]
The fear of my Majesty is in the southern regions,
there is no path far from me.
He sealed the whole land for me.
There is no boundary to that which became mine through force.
He enforced my power in Upper Retenu (southern Syria). //////////////////////////////

They brought me tribute from there to the place where my Majesty was, at all times.
The foreign country delivered to me all good things that are found there.
After it had hidden them from other kings, it opened them up. /////////////////////
electrum, gold, lapis lazuli, turquoise, every precious stone,
all kinds of spices, sweet of smell, which have grown in Punt, all good things of the south.
Everything which has reached my Majesty through trade belongs to him (i.e. Amen).
I fill his house and repay him for his protection. ///////////////////////////////// on the battlefield.
I for my part shall bring offerings, wonderful things from all lands, of the best which his strong arm has taken.
He has given me the order for it against all inhabitants of foreign lands.

These courtiers //////////////////////////////
Amen-Re, lord of the thrones of both lands, the great god of the beginning, the primordial, who has created your beauty.
He has given you every land.
Rule it for him who knows that you have emerged before him.
It is him who guides your Majesty on the path. ///////////////////////////////

I have spread fear of me to the northern borders of Asia, so that my messenger will not be hindered.
My soldiers cut down the flagpole on the terraces of the cedars, on the mountains of God's Land. //////////////////////////
for the memorials of my fathers, all the gods of Upper and Lower Egypt.
Then my Majesty built a neshmet-bark of cedar wood for the water-procession
/// /// on the coast of Lebanon as fortress /////////////////////////////////
All chiefs of Lebanon built the royal boats in order to sail south in them (and) bring all the precious things of Lebanon to the palace, l.p.h.

The chiefs of //////////////////////////////
The chiefs of Retenu (southern Syria) pulled the poles with cattle to the coast.
They came with their tribute to the place where his majesty was,
to the residence in ////////////////////////////////
with all the beautiful products which were brought as precious things of the South,
the revenues as yearly taxes like all subjects of my Majesty.

That which the people say /////////////////////////
The inhabitants of the foreign lands have seen your power, your glory, it encircled the summit of the earth.
Awe, the hearts of those who attack you, tremble before it ///////// the people /////////////////////// every Nubian, they disregard your plans.
It is your father who will give you victories over every foreign land.
Now, his Majesty was in the palace on the west side of the town //////// forever.

notes
-good god: epithet given to a deceased king
-water offering: offerings of food and drink were indispensable for the continued, eternal existence of men and gods.
-Pure Mountain: Gebel Barkal, a small mountain some 400 km north of Khartoum.
Foundation place of Napata which was to become the capital of the kingdom of Kush.
-both lands: Upper and Lower Egypt
This introductory passage begins with the enumeration of the full titulary of Thutmose.
-the two ladies: Nekhbet and Uto, the protective goddesses of Upper and Lower Egypt.
-son of his body: being called just "son" did not necessarily mean a blood relationship (cf. King's son of Kush)
-lord over every foreign land: the pharaoh was, as successor-substitute of the gods, ruler over the world that counted, i.e. Egypt. Being also overlord over the rest of the world considered to belong to the realm of chaos was an afterthought.
-ka: cf. Body and Soul
-akh spirit: cf. Body and Soul
-bull: royal epithet since earliest times, see the Narmer palette
-Horn of the Earth: In the Egyptian world view four pillars held up the sky, mountain peaks supporting them. The one to the north was beyond the "Great Green", generally assumed to be the Mediterranean, to the east was the "Mountain of Birth", to the south the "Horn of the earth", to the west the "Region of Life".[1]
-Monthu: Theban war god, originally from Hermonthis, who was, apparently, worshipped at Karnak since the Old Kingdom in the northern temple complex dedicated to Amen-Re Monthu [7].
-Naharin: The country between the rivers, at this time the kingdom of Mitanni (mTn)
-God's Land (tA nTr): generally taken to mean Punt, which most experts place in east Africa, but here the region of today's Lebanon, the source of Egypt's timber for shipbuilding, is meant. According to Lichtheim the term refers at times to woodlands. [5]
-The Mistress of Byblos: Ba'alat Gebel, the local Astarte. Byblos, (kbn), had trade relations with Egypt dating to the Predynastic Period. Identified with Hathor.
-that river (pXr-wr):, The Euphrates. Beinlich translates pXr-wr as 'sea in the north east'
-his eye: the sun.
-Nine Bows: traditional name for the often hostile peoples thought to be subject to the Egyptian kings (and thus to Maat, the proper world order). Later they came to refer to enemy foreigners.[2] (cf. Egyptians and foreigners)
-rebellious foreign lands: The Egyptian kings claimed world rule, foreigners not accepting the Egyptian yoke would therefore be styled "wicked", 'rebellious", or the like.
-beloved land: Egypt.
-Sanddwellers: bedouins
-the bull: the Egyptian king.
-metal of the sky: iron.
-Black Land: Kemet (km.t) the Egyptian floodplain
-Red Land: Deshret (dSr.t) the Egyptian desert regions


-Retenu: southern Syria
-millions of men, hundreds of thousands of the best: exaggeration was the least of sins committed by ancient kings.
-breath: the breath of life.
-on donkeys: riding animals was a rare skill in the bronze age. Donkeys were apparently frequently ridden in the Middle East, much less so in Egypt.
-his: Amen-Re's
-mace: a symbol of power rather than a weapon used in combat at the time. In depictions Egyptian kings are often shown striking enemies with a mace.
-Ames sceptre: Ams, a club-like sceptre, held by kings. When Rawer, a sem-priest stood before King Neferirkare the royal Ams-sceptre touched his foot whereupon the king immediately wished him: May you be hale! [3] The deceased too were armed with it, according to the Books of the Dead. Thus, in the papyrus Turin Museo Egizio 1791, Tb 145, the Osiris NN is holding the Ams in his hand as club against the rebels. [4]
-Wawat: region in northern Nubia
-Djahi: region in Canaan
-terraces of the cedars: the slopes of the mountains of Lebanon
-neshmet-bark: the bark in which the god Osiris was transported by priests during the procession of his festival at Abydos. People hoped to participate in Osiris' journey after their death, in the hope of being resurrected like Osiris [6].

THE GREEK MYTHS

MYTHOLOGY OF ATREIDES

The word Atreides refers to one of the sons of Atreus—Agamemnon and Menelaus. The plural form Atreidae or Atreidai refers to both sons collectively; in English, the form Atreides (the same form as the singular) is often used. This term is sometimes used for more distant descendants of Atreus.


TANTALUS

The House of Atreus begins with Tantalus.(Te Hantalishi)
Tantalus was a son of Zeus who enjoyed cordial relations with the gods
until he decided to slay his son Pelops and feed him to the gods as a test of their omniscience.
Most of the gods, as they sat down to dinner with Tantalus, immediately understood what had happened,
and, because they knew the nature of the meat they were served, were appalled and did not partake.
But Demeter, who was distracted due to the abduction by Hades of her daughter Persephone,
obliviously ate Pelops' shoulder.
The gods threw Tantalus into the underworld, where he spends eternity standing in a pool of water beneath a fruit tree with low branches.
Whenever he reaches for the fruit, the branches raise his intended meal from his grasp.
Whenever he bends down to get a drink, the water recedes before he can drink.
Thus is derived the word "tantalising".
The gods brought Pelops back to life, replacing the bone in his shoulder with a bit of ivory, thus marking the family forever afterwards.

Pelops and Hippodamia

Pelops married Hippodamia after winning a chariot race against her father, King Oenomaus,
by arranging for the sabotage of his would-be-father-in-law's chariot and resulting in his death.
The versions of the story differ.
The sabotage was arranged by Myrtilus (Murshili),
a servant of the king who was killed by Pelops for one of three reasons:
because he had been promised the right to take Hippodamia's virginity, which Pelops retracted,
because he attempted to rape her,
or because Pelops did not wish to share the credit for the victory.
As Myrtilus died, he cursed Pelops and his line, further adding to the house's curse.

ATREUS AND THYESTES

Pelops and Hippodamia had many sons;
two of them were Atreus and Thyestes.
Depending on myth versions, they murdered Chrysippus, who was their half-brother.
Because of the murder, Hippodamia, Atreus, and Thyestes were banished to Mycenae,
where Hippodamia is said to have hanged herself.

Atreus vowed to sacrifice his best lamb to Artemis.
Upon searching his flock, however, Atreus discovered a golden lamb
which he gave to his wife, Aerope, to hide from the goddess.
She gave it to Thyestes, her lover and Atreus' brother,
who then convinced Atreus to agree that whoever had the lamb should be king.
Thyestes produced the lamb and claimed the throne.

Atreus retook the throne using advice he received from Hermes.
THYESTES AGREED TO GIVE THE KINGDOM WHEN THE SUN MOVED BACKWARDS IN THE SKY
A FEAT WHICH ZEUS ACCOMPLISHED.
Atreus retook the throne and banished Thyestes.

[It appears the the Dorians though of the Hittite Empire as Lydia.]

Atreus then learned of Thyestes' and Aerope's adultery and plotted revenge.
Atreus killed Thyestes' sons and cooked them, save their hands and feet.
He tricked Thyestes into eating the flesh of his own sons and then taunted him with their hands and feet.
Thyestes was forced into exile for eating the flesh of a human.

Thyestes responded by asking an oracle what to do,
who advised him to have a son by his daughter, Pelopia, who would then kill Atreus.
However, when Aegisthus was first born,
Aegitheus was abandoned by his mother who was ashamed of the incestuous act.

A shepherd found the infant Aegisthus and gave him to Atreus, who raised him as his own son.
Only as Aegisthus entered adulthood did Thyestes reveal the truth to Aegisthus,
that he was both father and grandfather to the boy.
Aegisthus then killed Atreus,
although not before Atreus and Aerope had had two sons,
Agamemnon and Menelaus, and a daughter Anaxibia.

Agamemnon married Clytemnestra,
and Menelaus married Helen, her sister (known later as Helen of Troy).
Helen was taken away from Menelaus by Paris of Troy during a visit.
Menelaus then called on the chieftains to help him take back Helen.

Agamemnon, Iphigenia, Clytemnestra, Aegisthus, Orestes, and Electra

Prior to sailing off to war against Troy,
Agamemnon had angered the goddess Artemis [of Ephesus] because he had killed a sacred deer in a sacred grove,
and had then boasted that he was a better hunter than she was.
When the time came, Artemis stilled the winds so that Agamemnon's fleet could not sail.
A prophet named Calchas told him that in order to appease Artemis,
Agamemnon would have to sacrifice the most precious thing that had come to his possession in the year he killed the sacred deer.
This was his first-born daughter, Iphigenia. He sent word home for her to come
(in some versions of the story on the pretense that she was to be married to Achilles).
Iphigenia accepted her father's choice and was honored to be a part of the war.
Clytemnestra tried to stop Iphigenia but was sent away.
After sacrificing Iphigenia, Agamemnon's fleet was able to get under way.

While Agamemnon was fighting the Trojans,
his wife Clytemnestra, enraged by the murder of her daughter, began an affair with Aegisthus.
When Agamemnon returned home he brought with him a new concubine, the doomed prophetess Cassandra.
Upon his arrival that evening, before the great banquet she had prepared,
Clytemnestra drew a bath for him and when he came out of the bath,
she put the royal purple robe on him which had no opening for his head.
Agamemnon was confused and tangled up, and Clytemnestra then stabbed him to death.

Agamemnon's only son, Orestes, was quite young when his mother killed his father.
He was sent into exile.
In some versions he was sent away by Clytemnestra to avoid having him present during the murder of Agamemnon;
in others Electra herself rescued the infant Orestes and sent him away to protect him from their mother.
In both versions he was the legitimate heir apparent and as such a potential danger to his usurper uncle.

Goaded by his sister Electra, Orestes swore revenge.
He knew it was his duty to avenge his father's death, but saw also that in doing so he would have to kill his mother.
He was torn between avenging his father and sparing his mother.
'It was a son's duty to kill his father's murderers, a duty that came before all others.
But a son who killed his mother was abhorrent to gods and to men.'

When Orestes prayed to Apollo [of Ilios], the god advised him to kill his mother.
Orestes realized that he must work out the curse on his house, exact vengeance and pay with his own ruin.
After Orestes murdered Clytemnestra, he wandered the land with guilt in his heart.
After many years, with Apollo by his side, he pleaded to Athena.
No descendant of Atreus had ever done so noble an act
and 'neither he nor any descendant of his would ever again be driven into evil by the irresistible power of the past.'
Thus Orestes ended the curse of the House of Atreus.

.............

Thus Late Minoan IB comes to a rather decisive end,
and this leads to the creation of the forth group of written sources for the Joshua Impact Event, the Ionian Greek "mythological" records.
It appears that Hantilish was known to the Achaean Mycenean Greeks as
Tantalus, the god (Theos) Hantilish, or T'e-Hantilish, the king of the coastal region of Sipylus,
which has been correctly identified as Hittite Zippasla.
The rather direct Mycenean sense of humor finds typical expression in its description of Tantalus's fate.
After Tantalus dies he is sent to hell,
where though surrounded by food and drink, he can not enjoy them,
as he must hold up a large stone with both hands, in order to keep it from falling on his head.
Thus we have another mention of the Joshua Impact Event.

The fifth group of documents are the later classical records which came from the region of Sipylus and mentioned Hantilish's expedition.
I saw second hand notice of them in Peter James' book on Atlantis, "The Sunken Kingdom" and corresponded with James,
but still do not have direct citations from him for this set of records,
though I did receive information from James that
Dr. Eva Danelius had conducted work at the area around Beth Horon to the west of Jerusalem.
Whether today's Beth Horon is the same as yesterday's Beth Horon is another question entirely.
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Re: Luwian notes

Postby E.P. Grondine » Sat Nov 18, 2017 5:06 pm

NEW MATERIALS

1) The Luwian Hieorglyphic inscription

The inscription tells of how King Kupantakuruntas ruled a kingdom called Mira that was located in what is now western Turkey.

Mira controlled Troy (also in Turkey), according to the inscription, which additionally described Trojan prince Muksus leading a naval expedition that succeeded in conquering Ashkelon, located in modern-day Israel, and constructing a fortress there.

The inscription details King Kupanta Kuruntas (The king of Carians) path to the throne of MILA (Miletus):
His father, King Mashuittas, took control of Troy after a Trojan king named Walmus was overthrown.
The inscription says that soon after that, King Mashuittas reinstated Walmus on the Trojan throne in exchange for his loyalty to Mira (Miletus) .

Kupanta Kuruntas (The king of the Carians) became king of Mira (Miletus) after his father King Mashuittas died.
He then took control of Troy, although he wasn't the actual king of Troy.
In the inscription, Kupanta Kuruntas (The king of the Carians) describes himself as a guardian of Troy,
imploring future rulers of Troy to "guard Wilusa [an ancient name for Troy] (like) the great king (of) Mira (did)." (translation by Woudhuizen)

According to Zangger, the inscription was commissioned by Kupanta Kurunta (The King of the Carians),
the Great King of Mira, a Late Bronze Age state in western Asia Minor.

When Kupanta-Kurunta had reinforced his realm, just before 1190 BC,
he ordered his armies to storm toward the east against the vassal states of the Hittites.
After successful conquests on land,
the united forces of western Asia Minor also formed a fleet and invaded a number of coastal cities (whose names are given)
in the south and southeast of Asia Minor, as well as in Syria and Palestine.

Four great princes commanded the naval forces, among them Muksus from the Troad, the region of ancient Troy.
The Luwians from western Asia Minor advanced all the way to the borders of Egypt,
and even built a fortress at Ashkelon in southern Palestine.

The Hittite empire collapsed after almost 100 years of civil war. Tribes from the southern shores of the Black Sea raided the defenseless Hittite settlements.
After Hattuša had perished, Kuzitesup of Karkemish, the most influential Hittite vassal, continued to fight for the interests of the former empire.

A military alliance between the countries of Western Asia Minor formed under the leadership of Kupanta Kurunta (The KIng of the Carians),
the Great King of Mira, Arzawa, Šeha, and Wiluša (Helios- Ilios - Troy).

Four princes from Western Asia Minor commanded a fleet of 500 ships and 10,000 warriors against Cyprus, Karkemish, and Syria.

The military leader of the raiders was Muksus, a great prince from a neighboring town of Troy.
He later succeeded Kupanta Kurunta (The KIng of Carians).

Kuzitesup of Karkemisch eventually surrendered. The Kings of Western Asia Minor made him their vassal.

The subsequent peace permitted both regions to flourish, Western and Southeastern Asia Minor.
In both areas, use of the Luwian language and the hieroglyphic language prevailed for several centuries.

e.p.g.- 250 Luwian bullae have recently been excavated at Carchamesh.

2) Tudhaliya IV:

Yalburt Water Monument, measuring 13 by 8 meters, includes 20 stone blocks detailing the actions of Tudhaliya IV, who reigned from 1237-1209 BC.

The hieroglyphics recount a military campaign Tudhaliya IV made to southwest Anatolia,
Selçuk University Professor Hasan Bahar told Anadolu Agency.

"Here [Tudhaliya IV] talks of the cities he saw," said Bahar, describing the hieroglyphics.
"It looks like at the pool he was giving an account to the people."

Hittite society was not democratic, but the actions of the king to his people show an orderly society, Bahar said.

The pool was first unearthed in 1970 during work on the Ilgın district's water system.

Historians believe Tudhaliya IV was a king of the Hittite Empire, which was centered in Anatolia but reached parts of northern Levant and Upper Mesotamia.

To cope with a severe drought, he built 13 dams, one of which survives to this day at Alacahöyük, in Turkey's Çorum Province.

Tudhaliya IV was defeated in battle in 1230 BC [date?] by Tukulti-Ninurta I of Assyria.

3(We can now examine the Sea Peoples:

c. 1260 BCE? Ramesses II (1349 - 1274) narrative Kadesh Inscriptions Karkisha, Lukka, Sherden none
c. 1250 BCE? Merneptah (1274 - 1264) narrative Great Karnak Inscription Eqwesh, Lukka, Shekelesh, Sherden, Teresh
Eqwesh (of the countries of the sea),[31] possibly also Sherden and Sheklesh[38]
Athribis Stele Eqwesh, Shekelesh, Sherden, Teresh Eqwesh (of the countries of the sea)[31][38]
c. 1200 BCE Ramesses III (1232-1201) narrative Medinet Habu Denyen, Peleset, Shekelesh, Sherden, Teresh, Tjekker, Weshesh Teresh (of the sea), Sherden (of the sea)[39]
Papyrus Harris I Denyen, Peleset, Sherden, Tjekker, Weshesh Denyen (in their isles), Weshesh (of the sea)[28]
Rhetorical Stela Peleset, Teresh none
c. 1150 BCE List (no narrative) Onomasticon of Amenope Denyen, Lukka, Peleset, Sherden, Tjekker none
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Re: Luwian notes

Postby E.P. Grondine » Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:13 am

Title: The Trojan war dated by two solar eclipses.
Authors:Henriksson, Goran
Affiliation: AA(Department of Physics and Astronomy, Uppsala University S-751 20 Uppsala, Sweden)
Publication: Mediterranean Archaeology and Archaeometry, Vol. 12, Iss. 1, pp. 63-76
Publication Date: 00/2012
Origin:AUTHOR
Keywords: Iliad, Homer, Trojan War, Total Solar Eclipse, Achilles, Patroclus, Troy VI, Wilusa, Muwatalli II and Mursili II.
Bibliographic Code: 2012MAA....12...63H
Abstract

The Trojan War was very significant for the ancient Greeks and they dated historical events according to the number of years after the fall of Troy. However, there was already in antiquity no consensus as to the exact date of the war when compared with different epochs. Even after the modern discovery of the ancient city, there has been disagreement among different excavators as to which layer corresponds to the city mentioned in the Iliad attributed to Homer. In this paper an attempt is made to identify the strange obscuration of the sun that occurred during the final battle of the Iliad as a total solar eclipse close to the southern border of the zone of totality. There exists only one solar eclipse that corresponds to the description in the text and this is the total solar eclipse of June 11, in 1312 BC. When I first presented this date in 1986, there was a difference of about 60 years compared with the most common archaeological dating at that time. My date is now fully supported by the latest results from the German-American excavation that identifies the fall of Homer's Troy with the destruction of the archaeological layer Troy VIh, dated to about 1300 BC. Further independent support is provided by another solar eclipse that dates the reign of the Hittite king Muwatalli II. This king wrote a letter to king Alaksandu in Wilusa, identified as the Hittite name for Ilios, the most frequently used name for Troy in the Iliad. Alexander was another name for Paris who abducted Helen, the crime that resulted in the war. Muwatalli II was king 1315-1297 BC, according to the chronology for the Hittite Kingdom based on a solar eclipse in 1335 BC, during the tenth year of King Mursili II (1345- 1315 BC), the father of Muwatalli II.
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Re: Luwian notes

Postby Minimalist » Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:55 pm

I may have missed it but has anyone ever found any sort of inscription at "Troy" which indicates what the locals called it and/or themselves? That Schliemann found a town and called it Troy is beyond a doubt but, as in Jerusalem, where Eilat Mazar found a building an called it David's Palace even though there is no indication that it has anything to do with anyone named "David."
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

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Re: Luwian notes

Postby E.P. Grondine » Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:20 am

Hi min -

Minimalist wrote:I may have missed it but has anyone ever found any sort of inscription at "Troy" which indicates what the locals called it and/or themselves? That Schliemann found a town and called it Troy is beyond a doubt but, as in Jerusalem, where Eilat Mazar found a building an called it David's Palace even though there is no indication that it has anything to do with anyone named "David."


see my earlier note in this series on the iconography of Troy and its name in Luwian back on page 3, and my comments there.
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Re: Luwian notes

Postby Minimalist » Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:43 pm

That wasn't the question, though. What about an insciption at Hissarlik? Or any tablets with writing? Such tablets have been found on Crete and Mycenae and Pylos.

For an example of what I'm getting at consider that there is a large country in modern Europe. The French call it "Allemagne." In Italian it is "Germania" and in Spanish it is Alemania. We call it Germany but they call it Deutschland.

It doesn't matter what others called it. They could have called it Pittsburgh for all we know.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

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Re: Luwian notes

Postby E.P. Grondine » Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:45 pm

Minimalist wrote:That wasn't the question, though. What about an insciption at Hissarlik? Or any tablets with writing? Such tablets have been found on Crete and Mycenae and Pylos.

For an example of what I'm getting at consider that there is a large country in modern Europe. The French call it "Allemagne." In Italian it is "Germania" and in Spanish it is Alemania. We call it Germany but they call it Deutschland.

It doesn't matter what others called it. They could have called it Pittsburgh for all we know.


Hi min -

Given Schlienan'a excavation techniques, it's likely he would have dug straight through any clay tablet archive,
or entirely missed any bullae.
As for sites in the area, see my note on page 3.
In sum, Troy was known as Wilusa=Helios=Ilios.
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Re: Luwian notes

Postby Minimalist » Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:13 pm

Agree about Schliemann..... he was the Trump of archaeology.

It doesn't bother you that Linear B has been found at other sites which are allegedly linked to the Late Bronze Age trading loop but not at "Troy?"

Have you read Eric Cline's 1177 BC?
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

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Re: Luwian notes

Postby E.P. Grondine » Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:56 pm

Minimalist wrote:Agree about Schliemann..... he was the Trump of archaeology.


So now, does the government of Turkey work through Schlieman's spoils heaps,
or work on the Harbor of Troy, Kayarntas, or the restoration of the Temple of Ephesus?

Minimalist wrote:It doesn't bother you that Linear B has been found at other sites
which are allegedly linked to the Late Bronze Age trading loop but not at "Troy?"


No.

Minimalist wrote:Have you read Eric Cline's 1177 BC?


No. At least not yet.
I deal with impact events and their consequences.
That's way beyond Cline's level.
We now have the nice iron asteroid impact at Ephesus,
in addition to the "Joshua Impact".
The qeustion that I am dealing with is whether the Great Atlantic Impact Mega-Tsunami
disrupted the Atlantic Conveyor.
While I have Yukatec Mayan 3 Oc 1 Cimi dates for the tale of Ah Musen/Cab,
I don't know if they're Cholan dates, Yukatec dates,
or if the tale had been moved to a second later Atlantic Ocean Impact-tsnuami.
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Re: Luwian notes

Postby Tiompan » Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:08 pm

E.P. Grondine wrote:
Minimalist wrote:Have you read Eric Cline's 1177 BC?


No. At least not yet.
I deal with impact events and their consequences.
That's way beyond Cline's level.


Lol .
That takes a bit of beating , even from you E.P.
Unless of course you mean your "level " is stratospheric fantasising compared with Cline's grounded knowledge ,experience and evidence .
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Re: Luwian notes

Postby Minimalist » Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:52 pm

Maybe you'll enjoy this anyway.

https://rogueclassicism.com/2016/05/14/ ... world-war/

Guest Post: Eric Cline on ‘World War Zero or Zero World War’
May 14, 2016 / David Meadows ~ rogueclassicist

We invited Eric Cline, author of 1177 BC: The Year Civilization Collapsed to comment on the recent media flurry occasioned by claims of a Bronze Age ‘World War Zero’.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

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Re: Luwian notes

Postby E.P. Grondine » Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:12 am

Hi min

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DNyA90f_aw

It appears Professor Zanger does not think too highly of Cline's 1177.

This is a good place to note the tight integration of religion and government in PIE city states.
Generally this led to their inability to form nation state governmental structures.
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Re: Luwian notes

Postby Tiompan » Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:15 pm

E.P. Grondine wrote:It appears Professor Zanger does not think too highly of Cline's 1177.


Not that it matters what his opinions of others are , but where does he actually refute Cline ?
That's what matters .
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