Gobekli Tepe

[Gary Svindal]

I would very much like to solicit your comments regarding the astounding site called Gobekli Tepe. One article can be found here: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history-a ... -tepe.html

Six miles from Urfa, an ancient city in southeastern Turkey (aka Edessa and Urhai) lie the buried remains of Gobekli Tepe, a massive carved stone complex of some 22 acres about 11,000 years old, crafted and arranged by prehistoric people who had not yet developed metal tools or even pottery. This megalithic site predates Stonehenge by some 6,000 years.

The Lead Archeologist, Dr. Klaus Schmidt, believes the site represents the earliest known temple complex yet discovered. Yet it represents a paradox, as organized agriculture was still 500 years in man’s future, and surely must have been necessary to feed such a vast number of craftsmen, and the establishment keeps telling us” first came the city and then the temple”.

My look at the 17 foot standing stones with animal motifs indicated clan totems, so this was a meeting place between clans, and each clan represented was involved in the construction of the complex. The location was lush and fertile, and the complex was on a hill overlooking an annual migration route. I can envision a massive corralling effort to capture a food on the hoof herd necessary to feed those many craftsmen, and there was mention that each enclosure unearthed contained a feeding trough, so some animals may have been kept within those enclosures. It is logical to keep a food source close to feed the many craftsmen.

These nomadic hunter-gatherer people could not have developed this level of sophistication while spending all their time chasing animals, so they must have had an extensive wood and stone working history to accomplish such works. As to its being a temple, well I feel certain the Shamans had a role to play, but this seems more like a meeting place between clans. We will have to wait a while to find out if Dr. Schmidt finds the bodies of dead hunters buried under the floors, because after 13 years of digging, they’ve only uncovered about 5% of this massive complex.

Read more: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history-a ... z1p7i1Bg67
Read more: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history-a ... z1p7ewFVnM

Gary Rollefson, an archaeologist at Whitman College in Walla Walla, Washington, who is familiar with Schmidt's work said, "Trying to pick out symbolism from prehistoric context is an exercise in futility", but they sure look like tribal clan totems.

El Halcon

[Gary Svindal]

Ancient blades made of volcanic rock that were discovered at what may be the world's oldest temple suggest that the site in Turkey was the hub of a pilgrimage that attracted a cosmopolitan group of people some 11,000 years ago.

At least three of the obsidian sources are located in central Turkey, in a region called Cappadocia, which is located nearly 300 miles (500 km) away from Göbekli Tepe. At least three other sources are from the eastern part of the country, close to Lake Van, about 150 miles (250 km) away from the site. Yet another source is located in northeast Turkey, also about 300 miles (500 km).

Article is here: http://www.livescience.com/19085-world- ... image.html

[oldarchystudent]

I think this site re-writes the dates for sedentism. I don't believe this to be the creation of your normal wandering hunter-gatherers.

[hardaker]

Hi. Geologist Robert Schoch was on Coast to Coast AM w/ G. Noory two nights ago.
He gave an update on this fantastic site. Don't have a link to the interview but you should be able to find it.

[Cognito]

Hi. Geologist Robert Schoch was on Coast to Coast AM w/ G. Noory two nights ago.
He gave an update on this fantastic site.

Here's the link. Interesting interview:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCD159Js7TU

Gary wrote:

... and the establishment keeps telling us” first came the city and then the temple”.

Actually, Holocene civilization developed in the following sequence:

1. Temples
2. Small cities
3. Controlled agriculture
4. Large city states
5. Empires

By the way, Gary's concept of the carvings being tribal totems makes perfect sense.

[Gary Svindal]

This complex covers about 22 acres, and cannot have been built by part-time nomads. The surrounding countryside, and indeed the very mound covering this complex, has been utilized and leveled through agriculture for an extended period of time. Science will have to move the beginning of organized agriculture back at least 500 years to account for the very existence of Gobekli Tepe.

[Cognito]

Science will have to move the beginning of organized agriculture back at least 500 years to account for the very existence of Gobekli Tepe.

My listing of controlled agriculture as arising after small cities refers to Secondary Product Revolution agriculture. Organized opportunistic use of wild plants and animals is far older and Gobekli Tepe would have been no exception - these people were sedentary. I don't have my fingers on the link right now, but ovens with wild grain residue from baking have been found in Israel dating to 24kya.