Crete voyages

[oldarchystudent]

http://www.historyofinformation.com/?id ... U.facebook

Sorry if this has been discussed already, but the article suggests that 130,000 BCE artifacts found on Crete are proof of early voyages. My first question, for anyone who might know, is - what did the waters around Crete look like 130k YA?

[Minimalist]

Certainly far enough and deep enough to require an actual boat. The Riss ice age was ending about 130,000 BC which means that sea level should have been rising if that is what you are getting at?

[oldarchystudent]

Yes it is - thank you.

Because I was not sure if this was really proof of seafaring. If the levels were rising, then how low did they get in the years prior to 130k BP? Could people have reached Crete without boats?

I love it when the timeline gets pushed back a little, but I'm a little guarded about this one....

[Minimalist]

Looks to be about 300 km from this map.

http://plato-dialogues.org/tools/images/bigmaps/east_med.gif

[kbs2244]

We chewed a little on this back in Jan.

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2868

[Minimalist]

Circ made a good point in that thread. You don't make tools for only one purpose. OTOH, you aren't going to craft a 4-masted schooner with stone tools either so a hollowed out log - outrigger style - makes a lot of sense.

[Barracuda]

This is one of my favorite subjects!

I am into surfing and kayaking, and I grew up in southwestern Turkey.

Last winter I did a quick check with google earth, and at today's water levels, a fit person could easily reach Crete in a dug out canoe from southwestern Turkey (About Bodrum) via several islands. The islands are all less than one day apart via a primitive dug out canoe. Dug out canoes do not sink because wood floats...so they are actually very seaworthy. Much like the wash deck, or SitOnTop kayaks I use on the Pacific Ocean here in Northern California (See avatar) I have paddled dug out canoes on the amazon, and they are very comparable to modern craft. I am certain I could have easily proved my point in my younger days. Its common for locals to hop between islands in rowing dorries. My father often thought about rowing all the way from Bodrum to Athens. There is just one spot in the middle that is about 26 miles wide, but that is still doable in one day.

In ancient times the main attraction on Crete were Pygmy Hippos that evolved here. They were hunted to extinction in prehistory. Can not find a link, but there is evidence of very ancient Hippo BBQ pits on the island.

Surfng and BBQ Hippo! Throw in a case of beer, and it sounds like vacation to me!

[Minimalist]

That's actually a valid point, B. Because the tools were found on the south coast of Crete the assumption is made that the makers must have crossed from Africa. But, there is nothing to stop someone from sailing to Crete from Turkey and working their way around the coast. One must be careful of making assumptions.

[kbs2244]

Well, right on time.
From todays news page.

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/intern ... ion=recent

"Human precursors went to sea, team says"

[Minimalist]

I love it!

[Barracuda]

I like the second article better because it acknowledges the possibility that they came from Turkey, which is the nearest land, and that they may have NOT been Homo Sapiens.

I hope one day to replicate the trip in a modern rowing dorry.

[oldarchystudent]

Still not sure I'm sold. Dating based on location is a bit of a dicey thing.