Spaniards conquer New World?

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Spaniards conquer New World?

Postby gunny » Fri Mar 04, 2011 5:58 am

Had a discussion with a retired general over a single malt Scotch about how Cortez et al with a few soldiers and single shot firearms which took ten minutes to reload beat thousands of experienced warriors. Knew he had allies of dis-satisfied serfs, but still? Was it they thought he was a god returned from their past? The general said that campaign is taught in special forces school on how to get locals to help our side in warfare. Then there is Peru & central American kingdoms that fell? Amazing !!! Any books that analize the subject?
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Re: Spaniards conquer New World?

Postby Barracuda » Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:24 pm

Good Question Gunny!

The natives certainly had the sheer numbers, but maybe the natives had a tradition of one on one ritual combat for glory and honor.

The guy with the wooden club with obsidian teeth was just no match for the guy with the steel armor, helmet, sword, and steel tipped lance, even on foot.

Maybe the natives did not want to come to close quaterers with a mounted man. Those horses were trained to bite, and kick.

Firearms would have been a shock weapons,and the natives did not know they took so long to reload.

I think the Spainish had more cross bows than guns

I also wonder if there was a size difference. I bet the Spainish were much larger that the natives on average.

It would take a guy with a lot of guts to lead a charge against the Spainish, and they probably ran out of them very quickly
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Re: Spaniards conquer New World?

Postby Minimalist » Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:07 pm

I wonder.

Much like the ancients, the Spanish would have had no incentive to downgrade the number of enemies they conquered. Quite the opposite. We know that European diseases were doing their work before the Spanish ever arrived as a result of commerce among the native Americans themselves. Would the Spanish have boasted about walking into a nearly deserted village and killing a few sick men?

Not much 'glory' there.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

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Re: Spaniards conquer New World?

Postby gunny » Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:23 am

Still- amazingly against hundred thousands warriors--how was this possible? Disease came later. Read where estimate two million died small pox within 50 years. No, these Spaniards were little bitte guys, went through some castles in Spain & France with armour exhibited--Had to laugh at Sr Launcelot a tiny 5 foot Knight.
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Re: Spaniards conquer New World?

Postby Tiompan » Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:07 pm

gunny wrote: No, these Spaniards were little bitte guys, went through some castles in Spain & France with armour exhibited--Had to laugh at Sr Launcelot a tiny 5 foot Knight.




Sir Lancelot was a giant among men but then again he was a myth . Did they have the skull of Christ aged 5 as an exhibit too ?

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Re: Spaniards conquer New World?

Postby Minimalist » Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:39 pm

Charles Mann disputes the Spanish 'histories.'


http://cogweb.ucla.edu/Chumash/Population.html


The Indians in Peru, Dobyns concluded, had faced plagues from the day the conquistadors showed up—in fact, before then: smallpox arrived around 1525, seven years ahead of the Spanish. Brought to Mexico apparently by a single sick Spaniard, it swept south and eliminated more than half the population of the Incan empire. Smallpox claimed the Incan dictator Huayna Capac and much of his family, setting off a calamitous war of succession. So complete was the chaos that Francisco Pizarro was able to seize an empire the size of Spain and Italy combined with a force of 168 men.



Far less 'glorious' than the official histories but, then, as Napoleon said "history is a lie, agreed upon."
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

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Re: Spaniards conquer New World?

Postby Digit » Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:50 pm

"history is a lie, agreed upon."


You'll start Uni off!

Roy.
First people deny a thing, then they belittle it, then they say it was known all along! Von Humboldt
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Re: Spaniards conquer New World?

Postby Minimalist » Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:57 pm

Vive La France!
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

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