North American Neanderthals

The Western Hemisphere. General term for the Americas following their discovery by Europeans, thus setting them in contradistinction to the Old World of Africa, Europe, and Asia.

Moderators: Minimalist, Frank Harrist, MichelleH

North American Neanderthals

Postby uniface » Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:51 pm

A third-party summary posted on another board :
Yotova et al just published a study in the journal Molecular Biology and Evolution which demonstrates that an X-linked haplotype of Neanderthals (B0006) is not only present in ALL non-African populations but also OCCURS AT THE HIGHEST RATE IN NATIVE AMERICANS. Moreover, it is basically ABSENT in East Asia, and occurs in 9% of Western Europeans, the "center" of ancient Neanderthal populations, but is PRESENT IN 25% OF NATIVE AMERICANS, by far the highest prevalence worldwide. If neanderthals never made it to the New World, how is this possible??? Opinions???


A few links I found :
http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/e ... 4.abstract
http://forwhattheywereweare.blogspot.co ... rthal.html
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/ ... en-priors/

FWIW
uniface
 
Posts: 1053
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:21 am
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: North American Neanderthals

Postby Digit » Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:22 pm

If neanderthals never made it to the New World, how is this possible??? Opinions???


I think that is a rather daft question actually.

Roy.
First people deny a thing, then they belittle it, then they say it was known all along! Von Humboldt
User avatar
Digit
 
Posts: 6804
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2006 1:22 pm
Location: Wales, UK

Re: North American Neanderthals

Postby Minimalist » Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:56 pm

If neanderthals never made it to the New World, how is this possible???



They didn't have to make it to the New World. They only had to make it with Siberians who later crossed over.

It would be nice to be able to read more than the abstract but I'm not about to subscribe just for that.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin
Minimalist
 
Posts: 15258
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:09 pm
Location: Arizona

Re: North American Neanderthals

Postby Digit » Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:36 pm

Exactly.

Roy.
First people deny a thing, then they belittle it, then they say it was known all along! Von Humboldt
User avatar
Digit
 
Posts: 6804
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2006 1:22 pm
Location: Wales, UK

Re: North American Neanderthals

Postby Rokcet Scientist » Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:47 pm

If neanderthals never made it to the New World


That's a stupid supposition when truckloads of genetical evidence point to the opposite.
Rokcet Scientist
 

Re: North American Neanderthals

Postby Digit » Mon Feb 21, 2011 4:20 pm

Must be me then, I haven't seen a tea cup full.

Roy.
First people deny a thing, then they belittle it, then they say it was known all along! Von Humboldt
User avatar
Digit
 
Posts: 6804
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2006 1:22 pm
Location: Wales, UK

Re: North American Neanderthals

Postby uniface » Mon Feb 21, 2011 4:31 pm

They didn't have to make it to the New World. They only had to make it with Siberians who later crossed over.

Moreover, it is basically ABSENT in East Asia
uniface
 
Posts: 1053
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:21 am
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: North American Neanderthals

Postby Digit » Mon Feb 21, 2011 4:53 pm

Take a look at the map in your second link, the proportion is the same as most of Europe, a stronghold of HSN.

Roy.
First people deny a thing, then they belittle it, then they say it was known all along! Von Humboldt
User avatar
Digit
 
Posts: 6804
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2006 1:22 pm
Location: Wales, UK

Re: North American Neanderthals

Postby uniface » Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:06 pm

Aside from the west coast of India and the tip of Beringia, nowhere in Asia (west of the Urals) comes close.

(?)
uniface
 
Posts: 1053
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:21 am
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: North American Neanderthals

Postby Digit » Tue Feb 22, 2011 3:35 am

Sorry Uni but you're missing the point.
The preponderance of an HSN genetic marker in an HSS population has no relevance to the number of HSNs in a given spot at a given time.
What the heavy marking in the NW Americas tells us is that the marker was not diluted by interbreeding in that area with those not carrying a heavy load of the marker, nothing more.

Roy.
First people deny a thing, then they belittle it, then they say it was known all along! Von Humboldt
User avatar
Digit
 
Posts: 6804
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2006 1:22 pm
Location: Wales, UK

Re: North American Neanderthals

Postby uniface » Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:11 am

Objection.

I'm citing data (presumably, facts).

You're attempting to replace that with a conjecture about it.
uniface
 
Posts: 1053
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:21 am
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: North American Neanderthals

Postby Digit » Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:16 am

Oh dear! Your post states but is PRESENT IN 25% OF NATIVE AMERICANS, not that NA have 25% of HSN genes.
If you shot ever NA with the marker, bar one, the marker would present in 100 % of the population.
That is also a fact!

Roy.
First people deny a thing, then they belittle it, then they say it was known all along! Von Humboldt
User avatar
Digit
 
Posts: 6804
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2006 1:22 pm
Location: Wales, UK

Re: North American Neanderthals

Postby Rokcet Scientist » Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:29 am

Every cow is a mammal, Uni, but not every mammal is a cow.
Rokcet Scientist
 

Re: North American Neanderthals

Postby oldarchystudent » Fri Apr 29, 2011 7:37 am

I remember reading that haplogroup X was located in populations of the Altai Mountains of Siberia. That doesn't prove it's responsible for all or any of the North American incidence of X, but it's probably a good assumption.
My karma ran over my dogma.
User avatar
oldarchystudent
 
Posts: 567
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:34 am
Location: Canada

Re: North American Neanderthals

Postby Minimalist » Fri Apr 29, 2011 7:52 am

Wow...talk about a blast from the past. How've you been guy!
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin
Minimalist
 
Posts: 15258
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:09 pm
Location: Arizona

Next

Return to New World

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest