Artifact Qusetions

[kbs2244]

Oops!

So much for a united, sacred items front.

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_13011842

It makes me wonder about the legal side of things.

Are Indian reservations Federal property?
If they are, then the cigarette shops and casinos would be under Federal control.
And they aren’t

However, if the reservations are owned by the tribe, then they are not Federal owned land but are private property, and the artifact laws do not apply to private property.
But everybody acts like they do.

[Minimalist]

This discussion may be of some help to you, kb. I'm not sure what you're asking.


http://academic.udayton.edu/Race/03justice/NALR007.htm

[Rokcet Scientist]

Oops!

So much for a united, sacred items front.

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_13011842

It makes me wonder about the legal side of things.

Are Indian reservations Federal property?
If they are, then the cigarette shops and casinos would be under Federal control.
And they aren’t

However, if the reservations are owned by the tribe, then they are not Federal owned land but are private property, and the artifact laws do not apply to private property.
But everybody acts like they do.

What's your point, kb? Those 'sacred artifacts' are simply a higher level souvenir scam. When the indians run out they just make new ones, looking ancient and weathered, to sell to stupid white men who are prepared to part with big bucks for a romantic fantasy. It's simply a cottage industry. Supply and demand.

Now, if the artifacts were tiger or elephant parts, I could see good reason to make this a problem. But they aren't. So what's the problem?

[kbs2244]

Minimalist:
I am very much aware of the Kennewick Man story.
I monitor it.
But in this case there were no human remains.
Just “ceremonial” artifacts.
But there are at least 2 guys dead because of an investigation of a questionable “crime.”

RS:
I am well aware of the phony souvenir market.
I have seen them in shops where they didn’t bother to take off the infamous little gold oval “Made in China” label.
But these guys were dealing in the were the real stuff.

What I am questioning is whether these guys deserved to be in such fear of the law that they committed suicide.

[Minimalist]

Well, it wasn't a capital crime so suicide does seem like an overreaction.

The graves protection act covers federal land only (and there is a lot of that out here) but a lot of reservations are not located at what the various tribes considered their "ancestral home lands." So, in the case of Kennebec, for example, there was no reason to automatically assume "kinship" with the nearest tribe living nearby now.

The Navajo have their own police force. I'm not sure about the others out here. A number of them seem to be little more than excuses to build casinos.

[Rokcet Scientist]

What I am questioning is whether these guys deserved to be in such fear of the law that they committed suicide.

I wouldn't be surprised if they were high as a kite on peyote, mescal, or crystal meth. Imagine the panic when the cops showed up!

[kbs2244]

I don’t think so RS
These guys were white, middle aged, grandparents.
I believe one was a practicing physician.
To me it seems like an over reaction to possible public shame.

[Minimalist]

That's quite reasonable, kb.

Still, one wonders if it was that or they were afraid that an investigation would reveal other issues. Or, to put it another way, why assume that this was the only crime they committed?

[Leona Conner]

The September/October issue of Archaeology has an article on this. It's a conversation with Archaeologist Winston Hurst who lives in the same town. Haven't read the whole thing as it just arrived a couple of hours ago.

BTW, Min they have an article about the "Earliest Canals in America" on the outskirts of Tucson. That's in your neck of the woods isn't it?

[Minimalist]

About two hours south, Leona. I do seem to recall reading something about that in the paper a while back, though.

[Rokcet Scientist]

Canals? Plural? In the desert?
Were they navigable canals? For transportation? Or were they more like open air aquaducts? For irrigation, or for potable, drinking water?

[Minimalist]

http://ag.arizona.edu/AZWATER/awr/julyaug01/feature2.html


We have rivers in the desert. Sometimes, mainly in the rainy season, they even have water in them.

[Rokcet Scientist]

http://ag.arizona.edu/AZWATER/awr/julyaug01/feature2.html

Those are irrigation aquaducts. Not 'canals'.

We have rivers in the desert. Sometimes, mainly in the rainy season, they even have water in them.

To call those flash flood wadis 'rivers' is a bit much.

[Minimalist]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_River_(Arizona)


I didn't name them.

[Rokcet Scientist]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_River_(Arizona)

I didn't name them.

But you do use that ridiculous nomenclature with delusions of grandeur!
It's rather hilarious...
Do you also have a 'sanitation engineer' cleaning your house?
Why not call a spade a spade?
You're not fooling anyone but yourself.