The Sun of the Wind

The Western Hemisphere. General term for the Americas following their discovery by Europeans, thus setting them in contradistinction to the Old World of Africa, Europe, and Asia.

Moderators: Minimalist, MichelleH

Re: The Sun of the Wind

Postby E.P. Grondine » Fri May 05, 2017 7:05 pm

Peter Villella, (2014).
The Last Acolhua: Alva Ixtlilxochitl and Elite Native Historiography in Early New Spain.
Colonial Latin American Review, 23(1),

To begin, the legal and political activities of earlier leaders such as don Hernando Pimentel
had resulted in a broad paper trail rich with genealogical and historical information,
and their children were among Alva Ixtlilxochitl's primary informants and collaborators
(Carrasco 1974; O'Gorman 1975, 23, 47–85, 285–87).

Meanwhile, the chronicler's pictorial sources—which he erroneously believed to be preHispanic—
were also artifacts of post-conquest efforts to defend cacique patrimonies and tribute rights
(Carrera Stampa 1971, 223–33; Romero Galván 2003a; García 2006, 59–61).
Alva Ixtlilxochitl's source materials thus reflected not only a primordial Acolhua knowledge,
but also the postconquest maneuverings of noble families seeking to contest and
reframe ancestral claims in terms admissible to colonial authorities (Douglas 2010, 2001 n17).

Overall, Alva Ixtlilxochitl inherited (or was privy to) at least two discrete ‘archives’ of elite
Acolhua historiography, self-representation, and memory. The first came from Tetzcoco, where
the children and grandchildren of the tlatoani Nezahualpilli (r. 1473–1515) helped pioneer the
post-conquest discourse of cacique rights, arguing that both natural and positive law obliged
Spanish power to respect the suzerainty of native ruling lineages. ...

Alva Ixtlilxochitl's other primary sources of information came from Teotihuacan,
an Acolhua Province previously subject to Tetzcoco,
where his mother retained the local cacicazgo (cacique's entailed estate) (Munch Galindo 1976).
...
Usually people believe what they want to believe until reality intrudes.
User avatar
E.P. Grondine
 
Posts: 1880
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:36 am

Re: The Sun of the Wind

Postby E.P. Grondine » Sat May 06, 2017 12:39 pm

major work going on,
including computer aids to codex decipherment

http://www.scielo.org.mx/scielo.php?scr ... 0000100011
Usually people believe what they want to believe until reality intrudes.
User avatar
E.P. Grondine
 
Posts: 1880
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:36 am

Re: The Sun of the Wind

Postby E.P. Grondine » Sun May 07, 2017 4:43 pm

In his short article
LA CONCORDANCIA DE LOS TIEMPOS:
MITOS PREHISPÁNICOS E HISTORIA CRISTIANA
EN NUEVA ESPAÑA (SIGLOS X V I-X V III)
R E L A C I ON E S 7 1 . V E R A N O 19 97, V O l . XVIII
Pierre Ragon
UNIVERSIDAD DE PARÍS III

Pierre Ragon covers the biblical literalism of the Spanish priests,
and the framework into which the Native Histories had to be "fitted".
This article could easily be expanded into a book or thesis.

To sum up, the chronlogy of Eusebius of Ceaseria and variants of it were held to be divine truth.

THE Flood of Noah was held to be universal, and was dated by the Bible.
The pyramid at Cholula was viewed as a tower of Babel,
and the discovery of mammoth teeth led to the stories of the Giant Nephilim.
One of the Toltec's Quetzalcoatl's was viewed as Jesus's disciple Thomas.

To give you some idea of the results of these efforts, compare the orders of the ages in
El orden de las cuatro eras (soles) cumplidas según cuatro documentos del siglo xvi
(1) (2) (3) (4)
Hist. du Hist. de los Ley de los Anales de
Méchique Mexicanos s oles Cuauhtitlán
Agua Tierra Tierra Agua
Fuego Viento Viento Tigre = Tierra
Tierra Fuego Fuego Fuego
Viento Agua Agua Viento

and then you have Ixtlilchoctli,who Ragon does not include in his table, and that of the Codex Rios, which is not included either.
Codex Rios:
El Códice Vaticano 3738 – un documento colonial – distingue:
1) la edad blanca de Chalchiuhtlicue (Diosa del Agua), destruida por inundaciones, de modo
que las gentes se convertieron en peces,
2) la edad amarilla de Ehecatl (Dios del Viento), destruida por vientos fuertos, de modo que
las gentes se convertieron en monos,
3) la edad roja de Xiuhtecuhtli (Dios del Fuego), destruida por incendios, de modo que las
gentes se convertieron en aves,
4) la edad negra de Xochiquetzal (Diosa del Placer), destruida por bailes y vicios, de modo que
las gentes se cayeron en el abismo.
En esta presentación tardía se observa la influencia de la doctrina



Oh, and by the way, Native codices read from back to front,
directly opposite to European reading order.

That is what Palacios had to start with.
His key into it all appears to have been this:
Image
Usually people believe what they want to believe until reality intrudes.
User avatar
E.P. Grondine
 
Posts: 1880
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:36 am

Re: The Sun of the Wind

Postby Minimalist » Mon May 08, 2017 4:35 pm

Usually people believe what they want to believe until reality intrudes.


Um... reality does not impress them at all.

Image
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin
Minimalist
 
Posts: 15426
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:09 pm
Location: Arizona

Re: The Sun of the Wind

Postby E.P. Grondine » Thu May 11, 2017 5:35 pm

THE SUN OF THE WIND SOLVED

Image

Note Goggle Eyed God, and in the upper left Quetzalcoatl in the dress of his priest,
separating the waters from the lands.
The Sun of the Water, followed by---
Last edited by E.P. Grondine on Wed May 17, 2017 1:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Usually people believe what they want to believe until reality intrudes.
User avatar
E.P. Grondine
 
Posts: 1880
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:36 am

Re: The Sun of the Wind

Postby E.P. Grondine » Thu May 11, 2017 5:41 pm

Image

The Goggle Eyed God again, this time over the churning winds of The Sun of the Winds.
Last edited by E.P. Grondine on Wed May 17, 2017 1:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Usually people believe what they want to believe until reality intrudes.
User avatar
E.P. Grondine
 
Posts: 1880
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:36 am

Re: The Sun of the Wind

Postby E.P. Grondine » Thu May 11, 2017 5:44 pm

The Goggle Eyed God and Quetzlcoatl show up here:
Image

followed by The Sun of the Earth

Image
Last edited by E.P. Grondine on Wed May 17, 2017 1:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Usually people believe what they want to believe until reality intrudes.
User avatar
E.P. Grondine
 
Posts: 1880
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:36 am

Re: The Sun of the Wind

Postby E.P. Grondine » Thu May 11, 2017 6:00 pm

Now to explain what you've just seen

A few Mixtec codices survived the conquest.
The Mixtec used two systems of day names,
one of which was the same set of day names the Toltecs used.

Given that the use of the Otomi language had to be ordered to be replaced Nahuatl at Texcoco,
we can pretty safely assert that the Toltecs were Oto-Pame speakers,
which very nicely explains the full ceremonial complexes found at Wupatki and Casa Grande.

The Oto-Pame were followed by Nahuatl Chichimeca,
and later by Mexica from Lake Coahillla, when it collapsed due to seismic activity.

The Toltec adpoted Teotihaucan religion:

Image


NOTE THE GOGGLE EYED GOD MASKS NEXT TO THE QUETZALCOATL (Feathered Serpent) FACES.

Whatever language the Teotihuacanos spoke, their memory of the Holocene Start Impact Events involved the separation of land and water, The Sun of Water.
The Sun of Earth imagery is best explained by the inseparable linkage of impacts with catastrophe in their minds.

It would be nice to have multi-spectral imaging of the Codex Vienna done,
so that the greens of the original could be restored from their current dark brown shade.

Another problem is figuring out the toponym glyphs with certainty.
Usually people believe what they want to believe until reality intrudes.
User avatar
E.P. Grondine
 
Posts: 1880
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:36 am

Previous

Return to New World

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron