The Sun of the Wind

The Western Hemisphere. General term for the Americas following their discovery by Europeans, thus setting them in contradistinction to the Old World of Africa, Europe, and Asia.

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Re: The Sun of the Wind

Postby E.P. Grondine » Fri May 05, 2017 7:05 pm

Peter Villella, (2014).
The Last Acolhua: Alva Ixtlilxochitl and Elite Native Historiography in Early New Spain.
Colonial Latin American Review, 23(1),

To begin, the legal and political activities of earlier leaders such as don Hernando Pimentel
had resulted in a broad paper trail rich with genealogical and historical information,
and their children were among Alva Ixtlilxochitl's primary informants and collaborators
(Carrasco 1974; O'Gorman 1975, 23, 47–85, 285–87).

Meanwhile, the chronicler's pictorial sources—which he erroneously believed to be preHispanic—
were also artifacts of post-conquest efforts to defend cacique patrimonies and tribute rights
(Carrera Stampa 1971, 223–33; Romero Galván 2003a; García 2006, 59–61).
Alva Ixtlilxochitl's source materials thus reflected not only a primordial Acolhua knowledge,
but also the postconquest maneuverings of noble families seeking to contest and
reframe ancestral claims in terms admissible to colonial authorities (Douglas 2010, 2001 n17).

Overall, Alva Ixtlilxochitl inherited (or was privy to) at least two discrete ‘archives’ of elite
Acolhua historiography, self-representation, and memory. The first came from Tetzcoco, where
the children and grandchildren of the tlatoani Nezahualpilli (r. 1473–1515) helped pioneer the
post-conquest discourse of cacique rights, arguing that both natural and positive law obliged
Spanish power to respect the suzerainty of native ruling lineages. ...

Alva Ixtlilxochitl's other primary sources of information came from Teotihuacan,
an Acolhua Province previously subject to Tetzcoco,
where his mother retained the local cacicazgo (cacique's entailed estate) (Munch Galindo 1976).
...
E.P. Grondine
 

Re: The Sun of the Wind

Postby E.P. Grondine » Sat May 06, 2017 12:39 pm

major work going on,
including computer aids to codex decipherment

http://www.scielo.org.mx/scielo.php?scr ... 0000100011
E.P. Grondine
 

Re: The Sun of the Wind

Postby E.P. Grondine » Sun May 07, 2017 4:43 pm

In his short article
LA CONCORDANCIA DE LOS TIEMPOS:
MITOS PREHISPÁNICOS E HISTORIA CRISTIANA
EN NUEVA ESPAÑA (SIGLOS X V I-X V III)
R E L A C I ON E S 7 1 . V E R A N O 19 97, V O l . XVIII
Pierre Ragon
UNIVERSIDAD DE PARÍS III

Pierre Ragon covers the biblical literalism of the Spanish priests,
and the framework into which the Native Histories had to be "fitted".
This article could easily be expanded into a book or thesis.

To sum up, the chronlogy of Eusebius of Ceaseria and variants of it were held to be divine truth.

THE Flood of Noah was held to be universal, and was dated by the Bible.
The pyramid at Cholula was viewed as a tower of Babel,
and the discovery of mammoth teeth led to the stories of the Giant Nephilim.
One of the Toltec's Quetzalcoatl's was viewed as Jesus's disciple Thomas.

To give you some idea of the results of these efforts, compare the orders of the ages in
El orden de las cuatro eras (soles) cumplidas según cuatro documentos del siglo xvi
(1) (2) (3) (4)
Hist. du Hist. de los Ley de los Anales de
Méchique Mexicanos s oles Cuauhtitlán
Agua Tierra Tierra Agua
Fuego Viento Viento Tigre = Tierra
Tierra Fuego Fuego Fuego
Viento Agua Agua Viento

and then you have Ixtlilchoctli,who Ragon does not include in his table, and that of the Codex Rios, which is not included either.
Codex Rios:
El Códice Vaticano 3738 – un documento colonial – distingue:
1) la edad blanca de Chalchiuhtlicue (Diosa del Agua), destruida por inundaciones, de modo
que las gentes se convertieron en peces,
2) la edad amarilla de Ehecatl (Dios del Viento), destruida por vientos fuertos, de modo que
las gentes se convertieron en monos,
3) la edad roja de Xiuhtecuhtli (Dios del Fuego), destruida por incendios, de modo que las
gentes se convertieron en aves,
4) la edad negra de Xochiquetzal (Diosa del Placer), destruida por bailes y vicios, de modo que
las gentes se cayeron en el abismo.
En esta presentación tardía se observa la influencia de la doctrina



Oh, and by the way, Native codices read from back to front,
directly opposite to European reading order.

That is what Palacios had to start with.
His key into it all appears to have been this:
Image
E.P. Grondine
 

Re: The Sun of the Wind

Postby Minimalist » Mon May 08, 2017 4:35 pm

Usually people believe what they want to believe until reality intrudes.


Um... reality does not impress them at all.

Image
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin
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Re: The Sun of the Wind

Postby E.P. Grondine » Thu May 11, 2017 5:35 pm

THE SUN OF THE WIND SOLVED

Image

Note Goggle Eyed God, and in the upper left Quetzalcoatl in the dress of his priest,
separating the waters from the lands.
The Sun of the Water, followed by---
Last edited by E.P. Grondine on Wed May 17, 2017 1:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
E.P. Grondine
 

Re: The Sun of the Wind

Postby E.P. Grondine » Thu May 11, 2017 5:41 pm

Image

The Goggle Eyed God again, this time over the churning winds of The Sun of the Winds.
Last edited by E.P. Grondine on Wed May 17, 2017 1:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
E.P. Grondine
 

Re: The Sun of the Wind

Postby E.P. Grondine » Thu May 11, 2017 5:44 pm

The Goggle Eyed God and Quetzlcoatl show up here:
Image

followed by The Sun of the Earth

Image
Last edited by E.P. Grondine on Wed May 17, 2017 1:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
E.P. Grondine
 

Re: The Sun of the Wind

Postby E.P. Grondine » Thu May 11, 2017 6:00 pm

Now to explain what you've just seen

A few Mixtec codices survived the conquest.
The Mixtec used two systems of day names,
one of which was the same set of day names the Toltecs used.

Given that the use of the Otomi language had to be ordered to be replaced Nahuatl at Texcoco,
we can pretty safely assert that the Toltecs were Oto-Pame speakers,
which very nicely explains the full ceremonial complexes found at Wupatki and Casa Grande.

The Oto-Pame were followed by Nahuatl Chichimeca,
and later by Mexica from Lake Coahillla, when it collapsed due to seismic activity.

The Toltec adpoted Teotihaucan religion:

Image


NOTE THE GOGGLE EYED GOD MASKS NEXT TO THE QUETZALCOATL (Feathered Serpent) FACES.

Whatever language the Teotihuacanos spoke, their memory of the Holocene Start Impact Events involved the separation of land and water, The Sun of Water.
The Sun of Earth imagery is best explained by the inseparable linkage of impacts with catastrophe in their minds.

It would be nice to have multi-spectral imaging of the Codex Vienna done,
so that the greens of the original could be restored from their current dark brown shade.

Another problem is figuring out the toponym glyphs with certainty.
E.P. Grondine
 

Re: The Sun of the Wind

Postby Josip199 » Tue Jun 26, 2018 5:26 am

Here I found an interesting articles detailing some "New Features for Quetzalcoatl"
https://www.ancient-origins.net/myths-l ... god-008959

One of the civilizations of this period in which Quetzalcoatl was worshiped was the Teotihuacan civilization, which existed between the 3rd and 8th centuries AD. It seems that the people of this civilization worshipped Quetzalcoatl as a vegetation god, a deity of the earth and water that was closely connected to Tlaloc, a rain god. Certain substantial changes occurred to the cult of Quetzalcoatl when the Toltecs came to power. During this period, Quetzalcoatl was transformed into the god of the morning and evening star - as war and human sacrifice, which were central features of this culture, were linked with the worship of heavenly bodies.

Quetzalcoatl’s role as a solar deity was maintained during the Aztec period, though he was given a number of other roles as well. For example, Quetzalcoatl was associated with the planet Venus, became the protector of the goldsmiths and other craftsmen, and was considered to be the god of learning, science, crafts, arts, and agriculture. Quetzalcoatl is also said to have invented the calendar and discovered maize, two important features of the Aztec civilization. Moreover, Quetzalcoatl became strongly associated with the winds, specifically as a bringer of rain clouds, which was important to a society dependent on agriculture.
Image
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Re: The Sun of the Wind

Postby Simon21 » Tue Jun 26, 2018 6:38 am

It is indeed a pity that most of the Aztec codices were destroyed before they could be read. It is some comfort to learn that one of the most active bishops in this regard later committed suicide.

And no texts survive from teotuahacan. no one is even sure what the place was really called.

So most comment on Quetzalcoatl is pure speculation.

Grondine gets his "knbowledge" from Youtube crazies so nearly all he posts can be dismissed as crankiedom
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Re: The Sun of the Wind

Postby circumspice » Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:34 am

Hey EP... What disturbs me about most, if not all of your posts is the utter assurance with which you pronounce your opinions. You make these pronouncements as though they carry the weight of authority... As if you had the credentials to back up your opinions, which you most certainly do not. How in the hell can you make such statements when none of these languages have been completely deciphered? Even the acknowledged experts have huge differences of opinion when it comes to translating any surviving texts from any of the civilizations that rose up in North, Central & South America. If they can't agree & be certain of the translations, how the fuck can you??? You blithely make vast, all encompassing statements as to the meaning of the surviving codices, the nature of the gods they worshipped & the meaning of their oral traditions. How is it that you are vouchsafed this wondrous knowledge when the experts aren't? Did ancient aliens beam the knowledge into your brain so that you could educate the masses? You bear all the earmarks of a conman & a swindler. You NEVER address your lack of any meaningful credentials. You always skirt around the subject & if someone becomes too insistent, you hurl disgusting accusations of a sexual nature in order to deflect attention from your deficits. It's obvious that you're trying to find a niche in the alt market in which you can cash in on people's fantasies & insecurities.

I'll clue you in EP... That ship has already sailed without you. Better conmen than you have milked that cash cow dry. You missed your opportunity because you wanted it all... You wanted respectability AND the money. You should have settled for just the money... Pathetic...
"Damn with faint praise, assent with civil leer, and, without sneering, teach the rest to sneer." ~ Alexander Pope
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Re: The Sun of the Wind

Postby E.P. Grondine » Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:09 am



Hey spice -

I know full well the limits of our understanding.
That includes our ability to read ancient texts.
I rely on the best English translations available.

That you personally do not know who the experts were and are
is not my problem.

I use the best data available.
That data is what it is.
When I get to fuzzy areas,
I generally use appropriate language to indicate that.

While you are working in a two dimensional motivational space,
it lacks many other important dimensions.
Critically, hundreds of millions to billions of the lives of people just like you and me.

Working this problem has been time critical from the very start.
My way of working it has been to do my best,
and let others catch up.

Your world might only have academe, but mine does not.
Your world has NO field geologists,and damned few field archaeologists,
mine does not.
And that is just to name a few of the fields involved.

The money levels involved is far beyond your comprehension or understanding.
Do you know the prices of launchers, space telescopes,
data processing centers?
What do you know of international space cooperation and competition?

I can pretty much assure you it is very very little.
I do not intend to take time to demonstrate that to you.

As far as the matters covered in my posts to this topic,
a large known volcanic eruption should also be showing up
somewhere in these proto-historical records.

By the way, I am also an expert on the conmen you mention.
Here's the facts:
http://www.danieljglenn.com/the_podcast ... rt%201.pdf
read them an get back to me.
E.P. Grondine
 

Re: The Sun of the Wind

Postby Simon21 » Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:29 pm

Hey spice -

I know full well the limits of our understanding.
That includes our ability to read ancient texts.
I rely on the best English translations available.


Well wwe already know you have half a brain and like porn It inhibits your ability to learn a language

That you personally do not know who the experts were and are
is not my problem.


Your problem is your apparent addiction to porn and your brain damage which seems to be getting worse

I use the best data available.
That data is what it is.
When I get to fuzzy areas,
I generally use appropriate language to indicate that.


Not that I know the best data is because I can't read it. Ho ho

My data tells me Scotland is in Denmark

While you are working in a two dimensional motivational space,
it lacks many other important dimensions.
Critically, hundreds of millions to billions of the lives of people just like you and me.


Sadly my half brain also prevents me from writing coherent English
Working this problem has been time critical from the very start.
My way of working it has been to do my best,
and let others catch up.



Half brain impeding expression again

Your world might only have academe, but mine does not.
Your world has NO field geologists,and damned few field archaeologists,
mine does not.
And that is just to name a few of the fields involved.


Apparently his world has no "Academe". what is this? deoderant?

The money levels involved is far beyond your comprehension or understanding.
Do you know the prices of launchers, space telescopes,
data processing centers?
What do you know of international space cooperation and competition?


We can see that reconstructive brain surgery isobviously too expensive

I can pretty much assure you it is very very little.
I do not intend to take time to demonstrate that to you.

As far as the matters covered in my posts to this topic,
a large known volcanic eruption should also be showing up
somewhere in these proto-historical records.


ow sweet - we get a personal assurance from a half brain. And Hitler once said we wouldn't have a war!

By the way, I am also an expert on the conmen you mention.
Here's the facts:
http://www.danieljglenn.com/the_podcast ... rt%201.pdf
read them an get back to me.


Just that no one recognises it (sob). One consolation is that this guy's forms of expression are getting gradually worse. It can't be long now. Sad
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Re: The Sun of the Wind

Postby Simon21 » Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:32 pm

Postby circumspice » Tue Jun 26, 2018 3:34 pm

Hey EP... What disturbs me about most, if not all of your posts is the utter assurance with which you pronounce your opinions. You make these pronouncements as though they carry the weight of authority... As if you had the credentials to back up your opinions, which you most certainly do not. How in the hell can you make such statements when none of these languages have been completely deciphered? Even the acknowledged experts have huge differences of opinion when it comes to translating any surviving texts from any of the civilizations that rose up in North, Central & South America. If they can't agree & be certain of the translations, how the fuck can you??? You blithely make vast, all encompassing statements as to the meaning of the surviving codices, the nature of the gods they worshipped & the meaning of their oral traditions. How is it that you are vouchsafed this wondrous knowledge when the experts aren't? Did ancient aliens beam the knowledge into your brain so that you could educate the masses? You bear all the earmarks of a conman & a swindler. You NEVER address your lack of any meaningful credentials. You always skirt around the subject & if someone becomes too insistent, you hurl disgusting accusations of a sexual nature in order to deflect attention from your deficits. It's obvious that you're trying to find a niche in the alt market in which you can cash in on people's fantasies & insecurities.

I'll clue you in EP... That ship has already sailed without you. Better conmen than you have milked that cash cow dry. You missed your opportunity because you wanted it all... You wanted respectability AND the money. You should have settled for just the money... Pathetic...


This guy is obviously ill and probably getting more so. Can he not be "retired" for his family's sake?
Simon21
 
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Re: The Sun of the Wind

Postby Simon21 » Tue Jun 26, 2018 3:11 pm

I avoided Aztec materials in my book "Man and Impact in the Americas" for very good reasons.


I didn't know anything about them and I don't understand Spanish or Nuahtl.

I left the Romans out of my book "Ancient Europe" for the same reasons.
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