Problematic Discoveries

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Re: Problematic Discoveries

Postby Tiompan » Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:36 pm

Springhead wrote:Springhead
"Nature's" accuracy with facial features, grooming, clothing, color tones, and posture in a geomorphological process over great expanses of time defies logic and chance

Simulcra are very common in geology and geomorphology , in most cases they are more "accurate " and recognisable than your examples .

Springhead wrote: Since I am not the only person who sees these subject matters, it seems irresponsible to sweep all these people into a class of afflicted beings who cannot help themselves in their efforts to analyze the artifacts they are finding.

You would be astonished at the numbers of people happy to believe in all kinds of similar stuff . It doesn't mean that they were man made , at any period .
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Re: Problematic Discoveries

Postby shawomet » Sun Jul 30, 2017 11:43 am

Springhead, the one area where you have remained absolutely consistent is your insistence that you will not be educated in understanding the differences between man made objects, man altered objects, man made renderings on stone surfaces, and objects and renderings that are natural. On the one hand, it is an apparent fact that there are many people who steadfastly refuse to learn from people with more experience and greater knowledge. There are likely many reasons for this, it's not something I have made a study of. The Dunning-Kruger effect comes to mind as one possibility in your case:

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger_effect

Another possibility is that such insistence on a refusal to learn is a common tactic used by internet trolls to simply lead people on for whatever reason. I doubt this is the answer, but since you ignore and fail to address any objection to your ideas at all, but simply continue to present those ideas as if those objections did not even exist, well, I guess people can be forgiven if they do recognize that to be classic troll behavior, after all.

And I'm sure there must be other reasons. Whatever the reason, you have demonstrated a consistent refusal to be willing to learn. You remain mistaken in your interpretation of the objects and renderings you have offered in this thread. I am confident you will never change your tune, regardless of the reasons behind your errors in interpretations. You may be confident and rest assured that you will never change the minds of those individuals with sufficient experience and knowledge to recognize your lack of understanding. Quite simply, you do not know what you are talking about. You'll always be able to take that fundamental truth to the bank, even should you extend this thread to a thousand pages. At this point, a clever troll would thank me for my candor, even after being told that he or she knows not of what they speak, and just continue with more examples of rocks and scratches. And I won't be surprised.
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Re: Problematic Discoveries

Postby shawomet » Sun Jul 30, 2017 12:10 pm

Springhead wrote:
"Since I am not the only person who sees these subject matters, it seems irresponsible to sweep all these people into a class of afflicted beings who cannot help themselves in their efforts to analyze the artifacts they are finding."

Since there are thousands of people who believe the Earth is flat, and even a Flat Earth Society, are we therefore irresponsible in dismissing their beliefs? That would seem to be the gist of your argument, and it seems you want to apply it to your own arguments as well as folks like the guy behind the "Archaeology of Portable Rock Art" for example. Again, all just part of your inexplicable refusal to actually learn. Learning doesn't have to hurt. Give it a try sometime.
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Re: Problematic Discoveries

Postby circumspice » Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:43 am

@shawomet: Your kind & honest words are falling on deaf ears. You are probably correct as to how he will respond to your posts. More of the same... polite & completely ignoring what you said. Or maybe he'll post a polite rejoinder, then he'll post more blurry photos of ordinary rocks upon which he sees fantastical images.

Personally, I'm beginning to believe he is a troll rather than a misguided soul. He has some nearly valueless vertical acres that I believe he wants to develop into a money making attraction similar to the way the Whites developed their land at Spout Run... By the way, there is one common factor about both places... (Springhead's 'sites' & Spout Run) That common factor is Jack Hranicky. Coincidence? I think not. :shock:
"Damn with faint praise, assent with civil leer, and, without sneering, teach the rest to sneer." ~ Alexander Pope
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Re: Problematic Discoveries

Postby Tiompan » Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:21 am

I don't believe Springhead to be a troll . Although he and the White's may have been misled about the "artefacts" and "sites" on their land they have bought the nonsense happily and innocently .
I doubt it is a scam .However I do agree that they will never learn and have no wish to . We see it all the time . Beliefs that have had clear refutations just get repeated years later .
But is it a waste of time to respond to the nonsense ? I think not .
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Re: Problematic Discoveries

Postby Springhead » Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:48 am

Shawomet,

I appreciate your efforts to set me strait. I assure you that I do not hold my knowledge or abilities above anyone. That being said, it interests me that folks seem preoccupied with defining some specific problem I have with the thread subject matter and my psyche. As I speculate about finds from various sites I do not expect agreement from those reading the thread. I am reporting on in hand objects carefully observed, some of which have been identified as Pleistocene artifacts by an extremely experienced expert on tools and material culture. I have a lot to learn, and I am very respectful of the learning process, but frankly no one knows squat about me and what I may presently know, though to read the criticisms you would think I have some total vacuum up top. I am not going to toot my own horn here, but I would appreciate courtesy in the disagreements displayed. You have taken your good time and energy to advise/chide me, and I thank you for that, for I do not hold my own opinions infallible. However, until I am convinced I am totally off track, I will pursue trying to understand what I look down and see in my hand.

Circumspice,

I suppose I will add "deaf ears" to the inventory of insults you have accumulated for me. Frankly, I do not know what a "troll" might be in this world, but the idea that I am working some scam with my mountain farm is very far fetched. I suppose if that were the case I would have gotten busy on the idea in 1973 when I bought the place. The property is a retreat where trespassers and strangers are not sought out. Based on what you have written about me, would you appreciate my assessment of your demeanor, intention, psyche, and personality? I am not here to bump chests, nor am I here to "teach," but I am here to bounce ideas off of those with any interest. If I am off base, forgive my humble intellect and let's roll on.


Tiompan,

Thanks for the responxe to my "nonsense." You are correct in thinking the thread is not a scam. I am glad you feel that it is still worth responding to. And whatever a troll may be, thanks for opining that I am not that apparently dreaded designation.
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Re: Problematic Discoveries

Postby Tiompan » Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:24 pm

[quote="Springhead"
The property is a retreat where trespassers and strangers are not sought out. [/quote]

Good for you .
[quote="Springhead"
Tiompan,

Thanks for the responxe to my "nonsense." You are correct in thinking the thread is not a scam. I am glad you feel that it is still worth responding to. And whatever a troll may be, thanks for opining that I am not that apparently dreaded designation.[/quote]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll .
I don't believe for a minute the above applies to you Springhead .
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Re: Problematic Discoveries

Postby E.P. Grondine » Fri Aug 04, 2017 6:03 pm

Image
Usually people believe what they want to believe until reality intrudes.
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Re: Problematic Discoveries

Postby Springhead » Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:42 am

Hi E.P.,

Thanks for posting the codex. Bias world seems like a complex place that deserves attention in all aspects of life. My question is how do we filter our ideas and responses through the many aspects of bias and come out on the other side with anything resembling a coherent or original thought? By dissecting our thought process we may impede free thinking and association. Researchers have found that the normal brain's thoughts move vertically through association points on knowledge planes (like a stack of paper) and then turn 90 degrees out on these knowledge planes (sheets of paper) to reach a conclusion point. A subject given LSD will start at the same initial association point and arrive at the same conclusion point, but the line is a diagonal which makes different associations than the vertical line on every plane of knowledge before reaching the same conclusion. Maybe we do not all think the same (nothing to do with LSD), and some possess various associative processes which may yield valid conclusions from seemingly errant logic. The bias filter might not address these logic anomalies. Note: I am not equating these anomalies to my normal (I hope) self and ideas, but there may be conclusions (without drugs) out there that do not conform to bias models or normal logic yet deserve attention.
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Re: Problematic Discoveries

Postby Tiompan » Sun Aug 06, 2017 5:23 am

[quote="Springhead" Researchers have found that the normal brain's thoughts move vertically through association points on knowledge planes (like a stack of paper) and then turn 90 degrees out on these knowledge planes (sheets of paper) to reach a conclusion point. [/quote]
What "research "is this Springhead ?

[quote="Springhead
A subject given LSD will start at the same initial association point and arrive at the same conclusion point, but the line is a diagonal which makes different associations than the vertical line on every plane of knowledge before reaching the same conclusion. [/quote] Not sure what you are getting but if it a "thought pattern " , for want of a better term , happens with acid then it can happen without .
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Re: Problematic Discoveries

Postby Springhead » Sun Aug 06, 2017 6:33 am

Hi Tiompan,

I read this article on the research over forty years ago, and the schematic of thought patterns and the gist of the article have stuck with me over the years. I could look again for this but do not know if I can locate it. I suppose my point is that associative patterns of thinking can vary greatly between individuals, so perhaps cognitive models apply differently to different people. This may be somewhat related to the varied ways scientists and artists approach given information or physical evidence. In any event, models concerned with cognitive processes may be too narrow or specific to include a possibly vast array of associations possible by individuals on any given problem.
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Re: Problematic Discoveries

Postby Tiompan » Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:24 am

Hi Springhead ,
Yes there are many different approaches to arriving at conclusions ,or achieving goals , it is whether the final conclusion or result is correct or satisfying that matters , less so the route .
In a case of deciding whether a subject is man made or natural , how the conclusion is arrived at is secondary , what is being judged is the conclusion .
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