Deliberate slander by Ohio Historical Society Proxy

The Western Hemisphere. General term for the Americas following their discovery by Europeans, thus setting them in contradistinction to the Old World of Africa, Europe, and Asia.

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Deliberate slander by Ohio Historical Society Proxy

Postby E.P. Grondine » Wed Jun 17, 2015 3:20 pm

From New Age Frauds and Plastic Shamans -

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=3873.0

"Perhaps Mr Grondine deserves his own thread at the boards here – not for selling ceremony, but for presenting distorted versions of pseudo-history mixed with conspiracy theory basically claiming early Euro settlement in North America. This is one variant of the same old, same old, with various peoples being 'blamed' for migrating to (North) America, like Phoenicians, 'Nephillim', ice-age Solutréen dwellers from Europe, Welsh, etc.

"In googling Mr Grondine, I found he is getting characterised as a 'space reporter', or sometimes 'veteran space reporter' at several websites or in magazine articles. Now, English is not my first language, so I haven't the faintest what a 'space reporter' may be. If they spoke of a 'spaced out reporter', this would be a different kettle of fish, and probably far more apt...

"Mr Grondine also wrote a lenghy volume on impacts of comets etc and their effects on the Americas and their populations which he is eager to sell, so he also links to it from his profile here at NAFPS. This book is pseudo-history, too:

http://www.chicagoreader.com/chicago/at ... oid=923072

Quote

E.P. Grondine is a self-published author who came to Kempton a few years ago, after Childress agreed to distribute his book Man and Impact in the Americas, about the effects of asteroids and comets on the evolution of the first inhabitants of the western hemisphere. "David Hatcher Childress is the most successful publisher of fringe literature in the United States," Grondine writes in an e-mail. "And I wanted to learn how he did it.“

Emphasis mine
http://www.amazon.com/Man-Impact-Americ ... F8&s=books

Man and Impact in the Americas Paperback – 2005 by Grondine, E. P. (Author)
Quote

"In this book veteran space reporter E.P. GRONDINE surveys the effects of ASTEROID AND COMET IMPACTS on man in the Americas. The book includes an Introduction to the topic, and chapters on the effects of asteroid and comet impacts on man's evolution; how and when man crossed to the Americas; the impact events at the end of the last Ice Age; the arrival in North America of the Red Paint Peoples and the appearance of Copper Trading Giants; accounts from the Mayan records of the impacts at Rio Cuarto in Argentina and of the ensuing climate collapse; the accounts of the Maya and other peoples of the Great Atlantic Mega-Tsunami, and a survey of that tsunami's effects on man in the Americas; the Six Nations' eye-witness accounts of "Hopewell" societies, their crops, and their astronomy; the arrival of Comet Encke near the Earth in 536 CE and the ensuing climate collapse in the Americas; How, where, and why the Mississippians emerged; the smaller impacts at Key Marco, Florida, Genessee, New York, and in the Bald Mountains of Tennessee; eye witness accounts of the lives of the "Mississippians"; the migrations of the Little Ice Age and the end of the "Mississippians"; and the First Peoples' accounts of the arrival of the Europeans. Written using the First Peoples own accounts and their remains, the book includes a brief TRAVEL GUIDE to their sites, along with photographs or maps of several key sites, and a small MAP of the principal trade routes in southeast North America. The book includes adaptations into easy to read modern English of the FULL TEXTS of: David Cusick's SKETCHES OF THE ANCIENT HISTORY OF THE SIX NATIONS; The Chief of the Guardians of the Temple's account of THE ANCIENT WORD OF THE NATCHEZ; Tenskwatawa, Bluejacket, Black Hoof, James Clark, Nancy Sky THE ANCIENT HISTORY OF THE SHAWNEE; THE KUSHITA TALE OF THE ANCESTORS; and THE WALUM OLUM of the Lenape.

Emphasis mine

One of the reviews comments:

Quote

"He suggests long-term traffic via canoes between Europe, Africa and the Americas, "red-haired giants" (the real "Goliath?) mining copper for centuries around the Great Lakes, and exporting it to Africa via canoe, and many other unfamiliar ideas. This book was self-published by Mr. Grondine ...

Emphasis mine

Then Mr Grondine provided us with a link to a YT video of an interview he gave, explaining that this was the stuff he will be giving a lecture on at the fake Shawnee festival. Talking about 'spaced out'...

The video is introduced like this:
Quote

Did Giants build the ancient mounds in the United States? Many people think that the mounds were created by Nephilims mentioned in the bible. E.P. (Ed) Grondine, author of the book "Man And Impact In The Americas" explains more about the mound builders called Andaste or Susquehannock.


Basically, Mr Grondine speaks about a population of giants by the name of "Andaste aka Susquehannock“. Anthropologists, according to EPG, were astonished when excavating giant skeletons of between 6 and 7 feet, sometimes up to 8 feet. This population allegedly survived several thousands of years on American soil and were only wiped out as late as 1676. EPG claims there were direct eye-witness reports asserting these people were about 7 feet tall. When the interviewer interrupts with the questions that reports even speak of 8 feet and more and was this normal for the Andaste, EPG's reply is 'Yes, this was normal'.
EPG further continues to describe the Andaste claiming they were into cannibalism, child sacrifice, torture, and greed, 'they claimed far more resources than needed and … anybody they caught, they tortured to death'. However, says EPG, 'this is not the Native American ways', but 'we're not sure' whether they 'allowed' Native neighbours to live on.

The interviewer then remarks we won't see any giant skeletons at all in the museums. EPG explains that e.g. the Carnegie in Pittsburgh had excavation reports but 'what happened to their skeletons, I don't know'. On the other hand he claims that 'all the Native peoples remember these guys' and 'the Ho-Chunk fought them, the Ojibwe fought them, Five Nations fought them, the Shawnee fought them, the Cherokee fought them, the Choctaw-Chickasaw knew them [and] fought them'.

EPG then explains 'Finally, a small part of them intermarried with the Osage, and if you ever saw an Osage drum...'. He also claims that part of the giants' culture survived in Osage culture. These remarks are flanked by newspaper items speaking of the exceptional tallness of the Osage – tallest Indians in North America, or so.

If EPG by now got you puzzled how come there is this one ethnic group differing so much from the other peoples in their environment, he's going to answer that, too.... : tadaaaaah:

According to EPG, this was a people originally inhabiting the shores of the Black Sea. Now, when there was an alleged Holocene comet impact [I did not check this, so I prefer to say alleged], they migrated from their former are

According to EPG, this was a people originally inhabiting the shores of the Black Sea. Now, when there was an alleged Holocene comet impact [I did not check this, so I prefer to say alleged], they migrated from their former area which became flooded by the effects of that impact. This ethnic group, EPG claims, had an advanced level of technology. They eventually made it to the Atlantic coast (European side, that is) and from there set out to North America. This, EPG says, took place about 8,000-something BC, 'so we can trace them'.
'Couple of items of their technology are very much advanced – straight edges on stone tools, they bring that over from Europe'. They also brought that to Africa 'when they passed through the strait of Gibraltar. What is also characteristic – and we just realized – is their use of plinths, and these are showing up at Andaste sites'.

Not end of interview, but end of video.

So you followed EPG's description of who he thinks the moundbuilders were up to this point – and now for a serious blow: Not a word of it is true. It's all BS – garbage – fantasy --- in one word: pseudo-history.

Let's start having a look at things over at Europe. However, we don't have do go back to 8,000-something, just to about 5,500 BCE when melting ice and raising sea levels resulted in breaking the Bosporus (between Europe and Turkey, right were Istanbul is situated). Considerable amounts of water then splashed into the Black Sea which at that time had a lower level (apparently it did not get as much melt water as the Mediterranean had, plus the Mediterranean got water from the Atlantic, too). Consequently, its sea level rose, too, flooding the former shore areas. Sea level today is about 90 or 100 ms higher in the Black Sea than it was prior to 5,500. (see https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Black_Sea#History )

No impact, no comet – melt water. Not 8,000-whatever, but 5,500 BCE.

What's even more fatal to Mr Grondine's fantasies is: anthropologists and archeologists haven't excavated any giants in that area either. There were excavations and underwater research which even found traces of earlier settlements around the Black Sea, but none of the remnants suggest the existence of any giants there. Tough sh*t, innit.

Mr Grondine unfortunately is not too specific during that interview regarding the exact area these giants lived in, and the Wikipedia article lists the states bordering on the Black Sea today, so some details re an exact or assumed place would be nice to hear. He is similarly taciturn – at least in this video – regarding just how the giants crossed the Atlantic. In 8,000 BCE, as well as in 5,500 BCE, we're well prior to the existence of sails. Not of boats, though, but this would mean a voyage of about 5,000 kms roughly, more or less happily paddling away with no fresh water accessible except for rainfalls, no plants to be gathered, no game to be hunted, and you got women, children, and old persons on your hands to take care of, too. Remember – the ice had gone, no paddling along any ice shield, or with a lower sea level which might have exposed a few small islands resp mountains of the Atlantic Ridge. And let's not forget about another minor detail: not knowing where they might end up, whether there was any continent or whatever they would end up at.

But anyway, they miraculously did make it over to North America which also does not happen to be the shortest way over from the strait of Gibraltar, or the easiest which would take you to Mesoamerika. Going through the strait of Gibraltar in canoes from the Mediterranean to the Atlantic might also been quite some task, given the currents, but we won't let get stupid facts in the way of a sensation, now, would we. So the giants do make it over to North America and settle down. Sort of, because apparently their environment seems to have been somewhat hostile. Granted, a newly arrived population busting in and torturing and eating captives won't have been welcomed with arms wide open. Still, in Mr Grondine's mind, they successfully survived some 9,500 years. With the only intermarrying happening was with the Osage. Plus they built a few mounds to leave as their legacy. Which introduces quite a racist streak into the picture: 'of course', ndns were too daft to build mounds, that needed 'technically advanced Euros'. Duh! That's what you can get done equipping your stone tools with straight edges! : sarcasm off :

Needless to say, the theory of a giant 'race' of migrated mound builders is put forward e.g. by minds not quite grounded strictly on science but on fantasy, pseudo-history, and conspiracy theories, like the persons maintaining sites like „atlantis-research“, and more pseudo-scientific and/or conspiracy theorist sites. Apparently, since Mr Grondine has been reinvited for lectures year after year at the Ohio festival, it is also what organisers and audience welcome. But what an event: you get fake Shawnee listening to lectures on fake redhaired giant mount building refugees from the Black Sea with of course advanced technology (why, they're Euros, aren't they!).

Mentioning this, I am also curious as to why Mr Grondine believes all his migrant giants were red-haired. Red hair does occur in Europe in a fairly small percentage of the population, and even in Ireland you won't find an entirely red-haird population. So WTF should a people living far more to the south around the Black Sea (or whereever precisely we should be looking for their alleged homeland) be all red-haired?

Plus that the use of copper was no Euro privilege - ndns used it too. But how to claim these Euro migrants - as Mr Grondine apparently does in his book - also exported the copper to Africa using canoes *and* keep a straight face, is beyond me. Then again, Mr Grondine also seems to claim he was a historian. Well, TF he is. He hasn't even been introduced to history's lowest ranking scholar, one gentleman answering to the name of Jack Excrement.

Logged
E.P. Grondine
 

Re: Deliberate slander by Ohio Historical Society Proxy

Postby E.P. Grondine » Wed Jun 17, 2015 3:42 pm

Now I find my own family history mis-stated by Keely Squirrel Dennison, member of the Loyal Shawnee, who takes umbrage at my calling the Loyal about their misstatements of the Absentee Band's and Eastern Band's history.

Bertha Twigg, daughter of Bent Twigg, was my grandmother, keely, you f***king dolt.

Her daughter Rose was indeed my mother.

If you go to Shawnee Oldtown, Maryland, you will meet with other descendants of Bent (and that's "Bent", not "Ben") Twigg.

And that is where my 1/8 Shawnee ancestry came from - Tzewighelitha division, modern Thawagili.
Last edited by E.P. Grondine on Thu Jun 18, 2015 5:23 am, edited 2 times in total.
E.P. Grondine
 

Re: Deliberate slander by Ohio Historical Society Proxy

Postby E.P. Grondine » Wed Jun 17, 2015 4:18 pm

One of the reviews comments:

Quote

"He suggests long-term traffic via canoes between Europe, Africa and the Americas, "red-haired giants" (the real "Goliath?) mining copper for centuries around the Great Lakes, and exporting it to Africa via canoe, and many other unfamiliar ideas. This book was self-published by Mr. Grondine ..."

Excuse me, I never claimed the Andaste had red hair, nor that they exported copper to Africa,
and I can not be held responsible for what others say.
There are a whole lot of nuts out there.

"The interviewer then remarks we won't see any giant skeletons at all in the museums. EPG explains that e.g. the Carnegie in Pittsburgh had excavation reports but 'what happened to their skeletons, I don't know'.

Yes, I have no idea where the remains that Dragoo and Neuman excavated are.
Nor those excavated by Fowkes.

I don't need to see the skeletons. I've met Cherokee and Osage in whom the height gene expressed.

"On the other hand he claims that 'all the Native peoples remember these guys' and 'the Ho-Chunk fought them, the Ojibwe fought them, Five Nations fought them, the Shawnee fought them, the Cherokee fought them, the Choctaw-Chickasaw knew them [and] fought them'."

Yes. Sorry, I left the "Huron" out of that off this top of my head list.
My apologies to the Wendat.

"He also claims that part of the giants' culture survived in Osage culture."

I did not say that.

"With the only intermarrying happening was with the Osage."

I never said that.

"This ethnic group, EPG claims, had an advanced level of technology. They eventually made it to the Atlantic coast (European side, that is) and from there set out to North America. This, EPG says, took place about 8,000-something BC, 'so we can trace them'.

'Couple of items of their technology are very much advanced – straight edges on stone tools, they bring that over from Europe'.

SERATED edges, you f***king dolt. And polished stone tools. And an advanced maritime hunting toolkit, which I did not mention in the interview.
Neither did I mention the adoption of these technologies by the "glacial kame" and "red ochre" peoples.

"So you followed EPG's description of who he thinks the moundbuilders were up to this point – and now for a serious blow: Not a word of it is true. It's all BS – garbage – fantasy --- in one word: pseudo-history."

I have repeatedly and emphatically stated that there were no "moundbuilders", including at length in my book, you f*****g dolt.

Different peoples used earth to build different structures for different purposes: graves, palace bases, temple bases, enclosures for ball courts, enclosures for astronomical celebrations, enclosures for gatherings, fortifications, etc.

"Mounds'" are what are left of them after several hundred to several thousand years

"Moundbuilders"? You and your pals are all f****g dolts.

My book is rigorously footnoted.

Then we get some garbage about the Holocene Start Impact Event, which indicates an Ohio Historical Society source.

One problem with all of that crap - we have an atrobleme now, located right in what was then the North American ice sheet, and an impact date.
So f***k you.

"In 8,000 BCE, as well as in 5,500 BCE, we're well prior to the existence of sails. Not of boats, though, but this would mean a voyage of about 5,000 kms roughly, more or less happily paddling away with no fresh water accessible except for rainfalls, no plants to be gathered, no game to be hunted, and you got women, children, and old persons on your hands to take care of, too. "

Canadian Maritime Archaic shows up at 8,350 BCE.

I do not know all of their maritime technologies. but sails were used in the Americas before Columbus.

I do not know if they were invented here or if someone introduced them.

As far as the earliest images of dugouts with sails in the Mediterranean goes, I believe Francthi Cave was the earliest, but perhaps memoryy fails. I don't know what the earliest is now.

The other barriers raised are not insurmountable, given that both sea turtles and auks lived then.

"What's even more fatal to Mr Grondine's fantasies is: anthropologists and archeologists haven't excavated any giants in that area either. There were excavations and underwater research which even found traces of earlier settlements around the Black Sea, but none of the remnants suggest the existence of any giants there. Tough sh*t, innit."

The idiot who wrote this parts entirely complete ignorance of the Pre-Pottery Neolithic is revealing.
Sh*t for brains.

"Needless to say, the theory of a giant 'race' of migrated mound builders is put forward e.g. by minds not quite grounded strictly on science but on fantasy, pseudo-history, and conspiracy theories, like the persons maintaining sites like „atlantis-research“, and more pseudo-scientific and/or conspiracy theorist sites."

Yes, there is a whole lot of crap out there, including yours.

"Apparently, since Mr Grondine has been reinvited for lectures year after year at the Ohio festival, it is also what organisers and audience welcome. But what an event: you get fake Shawnee listening to lectures on fake redhaired giant mount building refugees from the Black Sea with of course advanced technology (why, they're Euros, aren't they!)."

They were Andaste, a part of the X mt DNA family. which spread beyond Europe.
Once again, I never said they had red hair. The Andaste had black hair.

I have no control over who attends the Solstice festival.

Once, again, I would be very happy if the White Oak Band, the Absentee Band, the Eastern Band, and the Shawnee living in refuge among the Kettle Point Ojibwe (this last band includes descendants of those closest to Tecumseh) all got together and asked the Ohio Historical Society for permission to perform ceremony proper at any of the sites under the ownership of the Ohio Historical Society.

"Mentioning this, I am also curious as to why Mr Grondine believes all his migrant giants were red-haired. Red hair does occur in Europe in a fairly small percentage of the population, and even in Ireland you won't find an entirely red-haird population. So WTF should a people living far more to the south around the Black Sea (or whereever precisely we should be looking for their alleged homeland) be all red-haired?"

And I am completely baffled by where they got this red hair stuff.

But I have no doubt why they put words in my mouth, which is simply to slander me.

"Plus that the use of copper was no Euro privilege - ndns used it too."

I never said that other Native Americans did not use coppper.
In point of fact, I emphatically stated that they did.
I also identified their sources of it.

"But how to claim these Euro migrants - as Mr Grondine apparently does in his book - also exported the copper to Africa using canoes *and* keep a straight face, is beyond me."

I never said the Andaste took copper to Africa.
I never made any speculation about trans Atlantic delivery points.
Nor did I speculate as to who may have carried copper across the Atlantic Ocean.

I did trace the Andaste copper trade route to the Atlantic Ocean.
As beyond that I made no other statement,
their clear intention here is to slander me.

"Then again, Mr Grondine also seems to claim he was a historian."

I still am, and my books will carry on for me after I have passed on.

Speaking about really bad fantasies,
I hope that the mistakes that the Loyal Shawnee made in their histories of the Absentee Band and Eastern Band will be corrected by them, keely.

Speaking about Europeans,
I do not recognize the identification by one set of US treaty commissioners (land thieves) in 1869 of the Shawnee in Kansas as THE Shawnee.

The Eastern Band and the Absentee Band are also part of THE Shawnee, and have been, and will be.
With full tribal rights.

Do you really want to go into casino politics here?
I don't and I won't.
Last edited by E.P. Grondine on Thu Jun 18, 2015 5:33 am, edited 5 times in total.
E.P. Grondine
 

Re: Deliberate slander by Ohio Historical Society Proxy

Postby E.P. Grondine » Wed Jun 17, 2015 4:27 pm

And to those who jointly composed this piece of sh*t,
I hope your great grandchildren give you problems. :lol:
E.P. Grondine
 

Re: Deliberate slander by Ohio Historical Society Proxy

Postby Minimalist » Thu Jun 18, 2015 4:15 pm

At least they didn't call you a "space cadet." I think that would have been worse.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

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Re: Deliberate slander by Ohio Historical Society Proxy

Postby E.P. Grondine » Thu Jun 18, 2015 4:38 pm

Minimalist wrote:At least they didn't call you a "space cadet." I think that would have been worse.


This is not a "they", and certainly not the board's moderator.

It is a very few people who are abusing NAFPS.

There are many people who try to set up cults
(in other words conmen whose specialty is spiritual cons),
using Native American themes to do so.
They often prey upon people of descent.

Then you also have the cults of the nu-agers,
who recycle theosophist garbage.

There ix usually a "sacred science" involved,
often some kind of bogus Native American history.

Think "mormon", without any christian (empathetic) values to limit abuse.

I've had people impersonate me online before,
and had them waste my time.

It is very angering.
For example, how does it feel to be such a devout christian, min?
E.P. Grondine
 

Re: Deliberate slander by Ohio Historical Society Proxy

Postby uniface » Thu Jun 18, 2015 8:30 pm

That really stinks, E. P.

:evil: :evil: :evil:
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Re: Deliberate slander by Ohio Historical Society Proxy

Postby circumspice » Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:01 am

Just out of curiosity...

If this comes from another board, why us this issue being addressed here?
"Damn with faint praise, assent with civil leer, and, without sneering, teach the rest to sneer." ~ Alexander Pope
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Re: Deliberate slander by Ohio Historical Society Proxy

Postby E.P. Grondine » Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:45 am

circumspice wrote:Just out of curiosity...

If this comes from another board, why us this issue being addressed here?


This matter involves Keely Squirrel Dennison,
and a strange coalition she has put together to slander me.

This also shows you the Ohio Historical Society's usual method of operations,
and a small part of what the citizens of Ohio have to put up with from them.

Then of course, you all know that I said none of these things,
and know exactly what I have said and written.
E.P. Grondine
 

Re: Deliberate slander by Ohio Historical Society Proxy

Postby circumspice » Sat Jun 20, 2015 3:39 am

Why tell us this?

Shouldn't you be answering their allegations on their board?

What purpose does it serve to answer them *here*?
"Damn with faint praise, assent with civil leer, and, without sneering, teach the rest to sneer." ~ Alexander Pope
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Re: Deliberate slander by Ohio Historical Society Proxy

Postby uniface » Sat Jun 20, 2015 5:49 am

News is news, no ?
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Re: Deliberate slander by Ohio Historical Society Proxy

Postby E.P. Grondine » Fri Jul 10, 2015 10:55 am

Dear "Inglebourg", (you dumb sl*t)

For the "giants" of the "traditional histories" see here:
http://www.spanishhill.com/p/giant-skeletons.html
You can add Dr. Baker to Dragoo and Neuman and Fowkes.

For a detailed account of the Andaste ("Adena") see :
http://mith.umd.edu/eada/html/display.p ... racter.xml

For Joseph Smith's mis-use of the original reports of their remains, see:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAkjQaH ... eQ_TKAUqL-
E.P. Grondine
 

Re: Deliberate slander by Ohio Historical Society Proxy

Postby E.P. Grondine » Fri Jul 10, 2015 11:05 am

Dear "Inglebourg", (you dumb sl*t)

For the likely location of the first impact of one piece of Comet Giacobinin Zimmer, see:

http://www.meridianbooster.com/2009/03/ ... -down-here

This substantially precedes the impacts of other pieces of this comet at 10,850 BCE.

If you have any more problems with the dating for Canadiam Martime Archaic,
or the X met DNA haplogroup,
please feel free to make a fool of yourself again, anywhere, anytime.
E.P. Grondine
 

Re: Deliberate slander by Ohio Historical Society Proxy

Postby circumspice » Mon Jul 13, 2015 8:36 pm

??? :?:
"Damn with faint praise, assent with civil leer, and, without sneering, teach the rest to sneer." ~ Alexander Pope
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Re: Deliberate slander by Ohio Historical Society Proxy

Postby E.P. Grondine » Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:12 am

Hi Circumspice -

What is the difference between the nu-age nuts and the Ohio Histrorical Society?

The nu-age nuts bring in very confused Maya and Zuni,
while the Ohio Historical Society relies on very confused Sioux and Lenape.
E.P. Grondine
 

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