Mississippi Embayment/Bolide Astrobleme

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Re: Mississippi Embayment/Bolide Astrobleme

Postby E.P. Grondine » Sat May 18, 2013 8:31 am

Kalopin wrote:
6. Will you cite your reference to Clark's involvement. If he did not go to, study or write about these events, why do you believe his NON-involvement matters?

7. During an impact containing cometary material, sand melts and vitrifies upon contact instantly fossilizing into impactites. No need for the long process of permineralization in such unusual circumstances!

....
NO, I have had many to want to further investigate, but are under circumstances. I had a person from USGS come over, give study, was VERY convinced that I am correct and was promptly sent to Haiti to study the earthquake their. We were suppose to join this person at a C.E.R.I. meeting, but being in Haiti could not be there. When we arrived at the meeting Gary Patterson made a 'bee line' straight for us, checked one of my rocks, said he didn't 'think' they were impactites and quickly changed the entire meeting, taking out the question/answer period and not giving any chance for a discussion. C.E.R.I. has basically just ignored my findings, never giving any substantial study, just as you? :roll:

Hard for me to believe you all have made more than two hundred posts without ever answering one single question!
You all would make great politicians! :lol:
Congratulations, you deserve some kind of reward-
'Trip Like I Do': http://www.elyrics.net/read/b/black-sab ... yrics.html :twisted: :lol: :twisted: 8)


Kalopin - It would be kind of hard for Clark to have known about an imaginary event which you only recently imagined.

Also, you do not know what a comet is composed of.

It is hard to answer questions about imaginary phenomenon.
It is really hard to answer when the questioner can not hear answers.

I agree with you completely that nacom and myself deserve some kind of reward.

You'd have to pay me to listen to Black Sabbath.

My current working assumption is that bad music and too much of the wrong drugs led to your present mental state.
Usually people believe what they want to believe until reality intrudes.
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Re: Mississippi Embayment/Bolide Astrobleme

Postby Minimalist » Sat May 18, 2013 9:12 am

circumspice wrote:This thread has been pointless, repetitive & BORING. *yawn*


Fixed that for you.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

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Re: Mississippi Embayment/Bolide Astrobleme

Postby Nacon » Sat May 18, 2013 10:49 am

E.P. Grondine wrote:
Nacon wrote:E.P. Grondine


I am unsure of the source, but the image was used quite commonly.
The graph is for 14C production.

Note that the graph goes back to 50,000 bp, far further than the paper you posted.
(By the way, both or the links were to INTcal98, neither to INTcal09.)

The graph also shows spikes, which smoothing processes eliminated.



E.P.

Apologies for the duplication. INTCAL 09 can be sourced at the below:

http://researchcommons.waikato.ac.nz/bi ... rine09.pdf

As to the initial figure, this comes from a website that is not necessarily known for credibility (bibliotec). One of the major issues with this figure is the apparent "extrapolation" of 14C data. One may wish to investigate the actual paper that this figure was extracted from.

.


Hi nacom - I found it. see NEWSFLASH above. We're online at the same time.


Hi E.P.,

Pleased to learn that you were able to locate the source of the original (credible) publication. In light of such, took the time to apply a bit of high-resolution scaling to the figure. A couple points to note:

The high peak to the right would appear to have occurred at approximately 12.6-12.7 kya. The second (lesser) peak to the left of the right peak would appear to have occurred at approximately 15 kya.

The most current dating for the onset of the YD is 12.9 kya.

Does the article mention specific dates?

Edit: Addendum - Pulled up the CSFA article. The article cites 12.5 kya for the right peak.

.
Last edited by Nacon on Sat May 18, 2013 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mississippi Embayment/Bolide Astrobleme

Postby circumspice » Sat May 18, 2013 12:02 pm

Minimalist wrote:
circumspice wrote:This thread has been pointless, repetitive & BORING. *yawn*


Fixed that for you.


:lol: Thanks min! :lol:
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Re: Mississippi Embayment/Bolide Astrobleme

Postby Nacon » Sat May 18, 2013 12:05 pm

"Kalopin"

You are ridiculous!
My use of the term stratigraphy refers to the arrangement of strata throughout the 'New Madrid Lines', duh!

2-4: NO! There is NO sedimentary process that could have formed these rocks! I can not see how anyone would think two seperate slabs of rock could be fused completely by any concretion process! You had better give closer study. I really do have several hundred more excellent examples everyone has yet to see. Do you suggest you have given me a professional determination? :lol:

5- No, YOU are demonstrating a 'lack of understanding'! The New Madrid Lines ARE the strata lines from a shockwave. They are evenly spaced rolling hills, and could NOT have been formed by any other means! :roll:

6. Will you cite your reference to Clark's involvement. If he did not go to, study or write about these events, why do you believe his NON-involvement matters?

7. During an impact containing cometary material, sand melts and vitrifies upon contact instantly fossilizing into impactites. No need for the long process of permineralization in such unusual circumstances!

8. Nope, no 'exaggeration' the entire river valley was frozen, check the records. And in such an impact, coming in at such a low angle from almost due south over the horizon, was perfect aim to 'toss' and 'flip' massive amounts of land in huge slabs. This is why there were so many 'sand blows'. The pressure pushed up and out material in directional angles from impact, as every one of the sand blows encircles this central structure- STUDY IT! :shock:
The New Madrid fault could not have formed 'The Tiptonville Dome'- a huge mound of dirt pushed up by this impact, that is directly above the faultline. How could a deep fault form a large mound of land directly above? It can NOT and you can not explain any way it could!

NO, I have had many to want to further investigate, but are under circumstances. I had a person from USGS come over, give study, was VERY convinced that I am correct and was promptly sent to Haiti to study the earthquake their. We were suppose to join this person at a C.E.R.I. meeting, but being in Haiti could not be there. When we arrived at the meeting Gary Patterson made a 'bee line' straight for us, checked one of my rocks, said he didn't 'think' they were impactites and quickly changed the entire meeting, taking out the question/answer period and not giving any chance for a discussion. C.E.R.I. has basically just ignored my findings, never giving any substantial study, just as you? :roll:

Hard for me to believe you all have made more than two hundred posts without ever answering one single question!
You all would make great politicians! :lol:
Congratulations, you deserve some kind of reward-




Re: 1) - While not terribly concise, are you referring to the upper edges of the sedimentary Embayment syncline that are associated with your location?

Re: 2-4) - Are you stating that sandstones, etc. are not the product of sedimentary processes? As to "fusing", it may be that you are misinterpreting the bedding planes of dissimilar strata in a post-erosional state. Difficult to judge without specific examples. As to the fusing of concretions, yes this can occur:

http://earthinsightcache.blogspot.com/2 ... balls.html

Re: 5) Continually repeating an unsubstantiated personal misinterpretation does result in scientific acceptance.

Re: 6) Contrary to your prior statements, it has now been clearly (and publicly) established that Clark was located in the area of concern, during the time period of concern. It has also been clearly established that Clark had extensive involvement with the Indigenous and Euroamerican populations of the area of concern. It has further been clearly established that Clark produced a range of documentation, both professional and private. You have previously been provided with three sources of this documentation.

In one of my earlier contributions, reference was made to Clark's request for assistance following the 1811-1812 events. The following is the verbatim text of that request. You will note that Clark specifically refers to earthquakes and does not refer to a comet/asteroid impact

http://newmadrid2011.org/index.php?opti ... &Itemid=20

In addition to the writings of Clark, there is preserved documentation by other witnesses to the events. For example:

http://pubs.usgs.gov/gip/118/pdf/GIP118_text-only.pdf

You will note that all nine of the above accounts refer to earthquakes. For further accounts:

http://www.ceri.memphis.edu/compendium/

You have also been previously referred to private letters of Clark. To reiterate said reference:

http://books.google.com/books?id=jILKL9 ... CFIQ6AEwBA

Re: 7) Fossils are permineralized organic specimens. As previously noted, your understanding of this topic is truly abysmal.

Re: 8) In regards to the Tiptonville Dome:

Russ (1982) concluded that most of the deformation on the Tiptonville dome took place during the last 2000 years. Furthermore, the uplift occurred primarily during at least three earthquakes (two pre-1800, one during 1811-1812). Kelson and others (1992) examined stratigraphic relations exposed in a trench across the Reelfoot scarp and, based upon radiocarbon dates of the scarp-derived colluvial deposits, concluded that the penultimate event occurred between 1310 and 1540 AD, and a possible earlier event occurred prior to about 900 AD (Boyd and Schumm 1995, USGS Professional Paper 1538-R) (Emphasis added).

Further related information, Tiptonville, sandblows, etc.:

Surface Deformation--Evidence for Pre-Historic Earthquakes
The Lake County uplift, about 50 kilometers long and 23 kilometers wide, stands above the surrounding Mississippi River Valley by as much as 10 meters in parts of southwest Kentucky, southeast Missouri, and northwest Tennessee. The uplift apparently resulted from vertical movement along several, ancient, subsurface faults. Most of the uplift occurred during prehistoric earthquakes. A strong correlation exists between modern seismicity and the uplift, indicating that stresses that produced the uplift may still exist today. Within the Lake County uplift, Tiptonville dome, which is about 14 kilometers in width and 11 kilometers in length, shows the largest upwarping and the highest topographic relief. It is bounded on the east by 3-m high Reelfoot scarp. Although most of Tiptonville dome formed between 200 and 2,000 years ago, additional uplifting deformed the northwest and southeast parts of the dome during the earthquakes of 1811-1812.


http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/ ... 1-1812.php

.
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Re: Mississippi Embayment/Bolide Astrobleme

Postby E.P. Grondine » Sat May 18, 2013 4:02 pm

Nacon wrote:E.P.

Apologies for the duplication. INTCAL 09 can be sourced at the below:

http://researchcommons.waikato.ac.nz/bi ... rine09.pdf

As to the initial figure, this comes from a website that is not necessarily known for credibility (bibliotec). One of the major issues with this figure is the apparent "extrapolation" of 14C data. One may wish to investigate the actual paper that this figure was extracted from.

Pleased to learn that you were able to locate the source of the original (credible) publication. In light of such, took the time to apply a bit of high-resolution scaling to the figure. A couple points to note:

The high peak to the right would appear to have occurred at approximately 12.6-12.7 kya. The second (lesser) peak to the left of the right peak would appear to have occurred at approximately 15 kya.

The most current dating for the onset of the YD is 12.9 kya.


Hi nacom

IMO, the term YD reflects European bias, and the YD itself was caused by melt drainange.
The Holocene Start Impact Event is what you are refering to, and probably what those two spikes in 14C production were caused by.

To the right of the LEFT side of the graph you will see a spike which I believe is related to the large iron impact at "Meteor"
[Barringer] Crater.

The ca 31,000 bp spke was likely due to a large iron impact in what is today's Russia.

Nacon wrote:Does the article mention specific dates?
Edit: Addendum - Pulled up the CSFA article. The article cites 12.5 kya for the right peak.


The original data series Firestone used to create the graph [cited] gave at least one set of firm and absolute dates for the 14C samples.
Usually people believe what they want to believe until reality intrudes.
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Re: Mississippi Embayment/Bolide Astrobleme

Postby Kalopin » Sun May 19, 2013 7:30 am

Nacon wrote:
The NMFZ and the Embayment, due to their rather unique properties, have been the subject of many decades of qualified research and are surprisingly well understood.


I believe this statement shows your inability to understand facts. The NMSZ is NOT "well understood". No one is even sure what produced this unusual topography [except for me!]. Was it inland seas, an ice sheet, thousands of years of erosion,...? So, another unanswered question returns: Since the embayment is so "surprisingly well understood"- Why don't you explain to me the processes that COULD form a river valley with evenly spaced rolling hills of gravel?

And, please study up on how little is understood concerning petrified wood and fossilization!:
http://amazingdiscoveries.org/C-decepti ... astrophism
http://www.livescience.com/110-presto-i ... d-lab.html

As I have previously stated- The trees were INSTANTLY petrified!!! 8)
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Re: Mississippi Embayment/Bolide Astrobleme

Postby E.P. Grondine » Sun May 19, 2013 8:10 am

Imaginary phenomenon to support an imaginary physics, and imaginary discongruities to jutify a need for that imaginary physics. And now kalopin cites a "creationist" site for his data and physics. :twisted:
Usually people believe what they want to believe until reality intrudes.
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Re: Mississippi Embayment/Bolide Astrobleme

Postby Kalopin » Sun May 19, 2013 8:58 am

E.P. Grondine wrote:Imaginary phenomenon to support an imaginary physics, and imaginary discongruities to jutify a need for that imaginary physics. And now kalopin cites a "creationist" site for his data and physics. :twisted:


You ALL have to stop it with the 'evolutionist'/'creationist' b.s.- There is much more than two stupid sides that are both very faulty but do have a few things correct! Sure, life evolves and adapts to its environment, and there is no doubt that intelligent design exists. Humans have intelligently designed and domesticated many plants and animals [corn, horse and dog breeds, cattle,...] and lately we have even manipulated DNA. So why not think this could have been easily done before, as the time frames are all still in question, and this is also due to catastrophes.
Asking me?- The universe is many times older than 13.7 billion of your planets' revolutions around its tiny star. Earth is a 'new' planet, Homosapian has existed for many billions years before this planet did, and Panspermia has spread life throughout the Universe. If you can think on this scale, it will make much more sense to you! :)

BUTThis is about the kids in the classroom being told they will have to take a test on the volcanoes in Mississippi:
Now students: please review todays lesson-
There were two valconoes in Central Mississippi, one named 'Midnight' the other named 'The Jackson Dome', previously known as 'Burning Mountain', which sat on 'Jackson Island' and the natives have many legends about them. One of the last stories concerns 'Burning Mountain' being 'rent' to its base during the 1811-1812 New Madrid quakes. They now lay buried deep beneath sediments and were buried 65 million years ago in the Cretaceous Period.
What process was used to discover that two valconoes having nicknames and stories behind them were buried in the Cretaceous? :twisted: :roll: :lol:
Kalopin
 

Re: Mississippi Embayment/Bolide Astrobleme

Postby Nacon » Sun May 19, 2013 3:12 pm

E.P. Grondine wrote:
Nacon wrote:E.P.

Apologies for the duplication. INTCAL 09 can be sourced at the below:

http://researchcommons.waikato.ac.nz/bi ... rine09.pdf

As to the initial figure, this comes from a website that is not necessarily known for credibility (bibliotec). One of the major issues with this figure is the apparent "extrapolation" of 14C data. One may wish to investigate the actual paper that this figure was extracted from.

Pleased to learn that you were able to locate the source of the original (credible) publication. In light of such, took the time to apply a bit of high-resolution scaling to the figure. A couple points to note:

The high peak to the right would appear to have occurred at approximately 12.6-12.7 kya. The second (lesser) peak to the left of the right peak would appear to have occurred at approximately 15 kya.

The most current dating for the onset of the YD is 12.9 kya.


Hi nacom

IMO, the term YD reflects European bias, and the YD itself was caused by melt drainange.
The Holocene Start Impact Event is what you are refering to, and probably what those two spikes in 14C production were caused by.

To the right of the LEFT side of the graph you will see a spike which I believe is related to the large iron impact at "Meteor"
[Barringer] Crater.

The ca 31,000 bp spke was likely due to a large iron impact in what is today's Russia.

Nacon wrote:Does the article mention specific dates?
Edit: Addendum - Pulled up the CSFA article. The article cites 12.5 kya for the right peak.


The original data series Firestone used to create the graph [cited] gave at least one set of firm and absolute dates for the 14C samples.


E.P. - Have some more recent papers on file at the office that you may find to be of interest. Will be in the field most of the week, but will pull the citations tomorrow and attempt to get them to you in a timely manner.

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Re: Mississippi Embayment/Bolide Astrobleme

Postby Nacon » Sun May 19, 2013 4:23 pm

Kalopin wrote:
Nacon wrote:
The NMFZ and the Embayment, due to their rather unique properties, have been the subject of many decades of qualified research and are surprisingly well understood.


I believe this statement shows your inability to understand facts. The NMSZ is NOT "well understood". No one is even sure what produced this unusual topography [except for me!]. Was it inland seas, an ice sheet, thousands of years of erosion,...? So, another unanswered question returns: Since the embayment is so "surprisingly well understood"- Why don't you explain to me the processes that COULD form a river valley with evenly spaced rolling hills of gravel?

And, please study up on how little is understood concerning petrified wood and fossilization!:
http://amazingdiscoveries.org/C-decepti ... astrophism
http://www.livescience.com/110-presto-i ... d-lab.html

As I have previously stated- The trees were INSTANTLY petrified!!! 8)


Re: Bolded #1 & 2 - If you had taken the time to actually read, digest, and understand some of the previously supplied references, you would be aware that the factors mentioned above (with partial modification, see below), were all involved in the current geological history of the Embayment. In addition, further geological events also played a role. As previously noted, the geomorphology of the Embayment has a long and complex history.

To briefly address the glacial aspect: At no point during the Pleistocene did any of the four primary glacial advances (Nebraskan, Kansan, Illinoisan, Wisconsin) actually reach northern Mississippi. The extent of the most extensive advance has been documented at approximately the current northern Kentucky border. However, the wasting of the various glaciations did result in sediment deposition, erosion, and remodeling of the Embayment region.

As to the larger scale of events (previously presented in more detail), the following rather concisely encapsulates current understandings:

Writing in the January 2007 issue of Scientific American, Roy B. Van Arsdale and Randel Cox of the University of Memphis offered the following explanation of the embayment's complex origin.

As Pangaea began to break up about 95 million years ago, North America passed over a volcanic "hot spot" in the earth's mantle (specifically, the Bermuda hot spot) that was undergoing a period of intense activity. The upwelling of magma from the hot spot forced the further uplift to a height of perhaps 2-3 km of part of the Appalachian-Ouachita range, forming an arch. The uplifted land quickly eroded and, as North America moved away from the hot spot and as the hot spot's activity declined, the crust beneath the embayment region cooled, contracted and subsided to a depth of 2.6 km, forming a trough that was flooded by the Gulf of Mexico. As sea levels dropped, the Mississippi and other rivers extended their courses into the embayment, which gradually became filled with sediment.


http://showme.net/~fkeller/quake/topography.htm

Further relevant geomorphological data:

http://pubs.usgs.gov/circ/circ1208/introduction.htm

You may also wish to study the mapping of the above. And also learn the difference between topography and stratigraphy.

Re: Permineralization - Once again, your attempts at credible citation fail. As noted by E.P., the first is a creationist site that does not, in any way, clearly present credible documentation for "instant" natural permineralization. In addition, this particular reference (as is typical of the ilk), presents such distortions as "fossilization takes millions of years". Fossilization in general, and permineralization in particular, can be subject to a number of variables that affect not only the nature of/type of the preservation, but can also affect the time factor. In some cases, permineralization can actually occur within a few hundred years. However, it is never "instant".

The second reference deals with an experimental commercial laboratory procedure that utilized the silicate saturation of 1 cm cubes of wood, pure argon gas and ceramic ovens. Hardly reflective of a natural environment.

On your own part, it may be time for a bit of reflection. You have obviously been shopping your "speculations" around for at least some three years. In the course of this time your various "data sets" (phrase utilized very loosely) have been addressed by a number of individuals. These "data sets" have been consistently demonstrated to be the product of what would appear to be a combination of ignorance, lack of research, an "active" imagination, and potential delusion.

Having specifically addressed what would appear to be the bulk of your more "pressing" claims, will await any further clear indications of a qualified position.

.
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Re: Mississippi Embayment/Bolide Astrobleme

Postby Kalopin » Mon May 20, 2013 7:14 am

Nacon wrote:
Kalopin wrote:I believe this statement shows your inability to understand facts. The NMSZ is NOT "well understood". No one is even sure what produced this unusual topography [except for me!]. Was it inland seas, an ice sheet, thousands of years of erosion,...? So, another unanswered question returns: Since the embayment is so "surprisingly well understood"- Why don't you explain to me the processes that COULD form a river valley with evenly spaced rolling hills of gravel?

And, please study up on how little is understood concerning petrified wood and fossilization!:
http://amazingdiscoveries.org/C-decepti ... astrophism
http://www.livescience.com/110-presto-i ... d-lab.html

As I have previously stated- The trees were INSTANTLY petrified!!! 8)


Re: Bolded #1 & 2 - If you had taken the time to actually read, digest, and understand some of the previously supplied references, you would be aware that the factors mentioned above (with partial modification, see below), were all involved in the current geological history of the Embayment. In addition, further geological events also played a role. As previously noted, the geomorphology of the Embayment has a long and complex history.

To briefly address the glacial aspect: At no point during the Pleistocene did any of the four primary glacial advances (Nebraskan, Kansan, Illinoisan, Wisconsin) actually reach northern Mississippi. The extent of the most extensive advance has been documented at approximately the current northern Kentucky border. However, the wasting of the various glaciations did result in sediment deposition, erosion, and remodeling of the Embayment region.

As to the larger scale of events (previously presented in more detail), the following rather concisely encapsulates current understandings:

Writing in the January 2007 issue of Scientific American, Roy B. Van Arsdale and Randel Cox of the University of Memphis offered the following explanation of the embayment's complex origin.

As Pangaea began to break up about 95 million years ago, North America passed over a volcanic "hot spot" in the earth's mantle (specifically, the Bermuda hot spot) that was undergoing a period of intense activity. The upwelling of magma from the hot spot forced the further uplift to a height of perhaps 2-3 km of part of the Appalachian-Ouachita range, forming an arch. The uplifted land quickly eroded and, as North America moved away from the hot spot and as the hot spot's activity declined, the crust beneath the embayment region cooled, contracted and subsided to a depth of 2.6 km, forming a trough that was flooded by the Gulf of Mexico. As sea levels dropped, the Mississippi and other rivers extended their courses into the embayment, which gradually became filled with sediment.


http://showme.net/~fkeller/quake/topography.htm

Further relevant geomorphological data:

http://pubs.usgs.gov/circ/circ1208/introduction.htm

You may also wish to study the mapping of the above. And also learn the difference between topography and stratigraphy.

Re: Permineralization - Once again, your attempts at credible citation fail. As noted by E.P., the first is a creationist site that does not, in any way, clearly present credible documentation for "instant" natural permineralization. In addition, this particular reference (as is typical of the ilk), presents such distortions as "fossilization takes millions of years". Fossilization in general, and permineralization in particular, can be subject to a number of variables that affect not only the nature of/type of the preservation, but can also affect the time factor. In some cases, permineralization can actually occur within a few hundred years. However, it is never "instant".

The second reference deals with an experimental commercial laboratory procedure that utilized the silicate saturation of 1 cm cubes of wood, pure argon gas and ceramic ovens. Hardly reflective of a natural environment.

On your own part, it may be time for a bit of reflection. You have obviously been shopping your "speculations" around for at least some three years. In the course of this time your various "data sets" (phrase utilized very loosely) have been addressed by a number of individuals. These "data sets" have been consistently demonstrated to be the product of what would appear to be a combination of ignorance, lack of research, an "active" imagination, and potential delusion.

Having specifically addressed what would appear to be the bulk of your more "pressing" claims, will await any further clear indications of a qualified position.

.


Yes, recently an Illinois geologist found the 'End Moraines' did not extend into Tennessee http://www.isgs.illinois.edu/maps-data- ... bit2.shtml , and that the last few ice ages never made it that far. Although there was glacial melt gravel, inland sea sands, and the plate may have encountered the 'Burmuda hotspot', these occurrances were WAY too far in the past and in no way could have possibly formed the embayments strange 'upward' topography at its surface. These evenly spaced rolling hills have to be the product of shockwaves!
OR_ Explain how a hot spot, inland seas, or glacial melt can form evenly spaced hills!

Where have I confused 'topography' and 'stratigraphy'? It is YOU that apparently does not understand either!

What you, and most are not understanding is that any habitable planet will constantly and very often reform vast surface areas to deeply bury any and all evidence of anything existing on land. Through catastrophe, this is the reason for such diverse beliefs, various religions, and faulty science concerning our past. History has been lost or distorted. The time frames that you and the ones you have quoted are way too distant compared to present topography at the rates of erosion known to exist. What do you think all that coal and oil is?! :roll:

My first reference to petrification concerns Mt. Saint Helens forest and the petrified forest at Yellowstone. He makes a great argument that shows instantaneous fossilization of wood. The second artticle is proof that it can be done, and the same type scenario can easily play out in nature. you and most do NOT understsand the intracacies of a cometary impact! You all have nothing to compare this to, so you continually make up nonsense that you think may be an option. NONE of your fantasy beliefs could form the embayment, only an impact could!

You say- "will await any further clear indications of a qualified position"?! At least you finally admit your lack of qualifications! Your delusional statements show how little effort you have put into finding the facts concerning these events. You want 'qualified indications'?- Find me on _______!

I wonder, Has anyone found anything about the original documents stating the comet as being seen as fifty percent larger than the Sun? I can not help the fact that so many have made ignorant statements from their faulty belief system. This is one of the main reasons for this research not finding investigation.

Do us a favor- stop spellin out "ass-u-me" and do some 'for real' studying into the facts and truths about these events. You have still managed to avoid all questions. How could any of your beliefs cause any of the strange occurrances or any of the strange topography so obviously evident? NO- Time for YOU to reflect! :lol:
Last edited by Kalopin on Tue May 21, 2013 12:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mississippi Embayment/Bolide Astrobleme

Postby Ernie L » Mon May 20, 2013 1:18 pm

Kalopin wrote:
I wonder, Has anyone found anything about the original documents stating the comet as being seen as fifty percent larger than the Sun? I can not help the fact that so many have made ignorant statements from their faulty belief system. This is one of the main reasons for this research not finding investigation.

In this wiki article ..in the paragraph labeled Observations http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Comet_of_1811
"The Great Comet of 1811 was thought to have had an exceptionally large coma, perhaps reaching over 1 million miles across—fifty percent larger than the Sun.[2]

[2] Burnham, Robert & Levy, David H. (2000), Great Comets, New York: Cambridge University Press, p. 53, ISBN 0-521-64600-6.

now that I think about it..this reference is still hearsay...I do not have Burnhams source.

http://product.half.ebay.com/Great-Come ... 3636628383
http://www.isbns.net/isbn/9780521646000
Regards Ernie
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Re: Mississippi Embayment/Bolide Astrobleme

Postby Kalopin » Mon May 20, 2013 5:01 pm

Ernie L wrote:
Kalopin wrote:
I wonder, Has anyone found anything about the original documents stating the comet as being seen as fifty percent larger than the Sun? I can not help the fact that so many have made ignorant statements from their faulty belief system. This is one of the main reasons for this research not finding investigation.

In this wiki article ..in the paragraph labeled Observations http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Comet_of_1811
"The Great Comet of 1811 was thought to have had an exceptionally large coma, perhaps reaching over 1 million miles across—fifty percent larger than the Sun.[2]

[2] Burnham, Robert & Levy, David H. (2000), Great Comets, New York: Cambridge University Press, p. 53, ISBN 0-521-64600-6.

now that I think about it..this reference is still hearsay...I do not have Burnhams source.

http://product.half.ebay.com/Great-Come ... 3636628383
http://www.isbns.net/isbn/9780521646000


Thanks Ernie,

The 'wiki' link is at the site- "Kalopins Legacy". I would like to read Burnhams' book. I believe the source was some astronomers/astrologers in the southern hemisphere, where it was in October 1811, before passing. It would be nice to find the original source. It seems much info. is missing that should be easy to find, especially as many articles that are quoting this information!

There are many conflicting stories; Was Johhn James Audubon aboard 'The New Orleans' or just visit? Was a young Jefferson Davis in Natchez to witness the Roosevelt's wedding? The whole trip sounds a little 'too' eventful!
http://www.new-madrid.mo.us/index.aspx?nid=132
http://www.showme.net/~fkeller/quake/lib/roosevelt.htm
http://www.knowla.org/entry.php?rec=531
Great reads- see what they say about the comet's influences!

But, will a similar scenario play out in the near future?
http://article.wn.com/view/2013/03/27/J ... lated_news
Just a 'lucky' planet? :? :twisted: :wink: :roll: :o :shock: :lol: 8)
Kalopin
 

Re: Mississippi Embayment/Bolide Astrobleme

Postby Nacon » Tue May 21, 2013 4:57 pm

E.P. Grondine wrote:
Nacon wrote:E.P.

Apologies for the duplication. INTCAL 09 can be sourced at the below:

http://researchcommons.waikato.ac.nz/bi ... rine09.pdf

As to the initial figure, this comes from a website that is not necessarily known for credibility (bibliotec). One of the major issues with this figure is the apparent "extrapolation" of 14C data. One may wish to investigate the actual paper that this figure was extracted from.

Pleased to learn that you were able to locate the source of the original (credible) publication. In light of such, took the time to apply a bit of high-resolution scaling to the figure. A couple points to note:

The high peak to the right would appear to have occurred at approximately 12.6-12.7 kya. The second (lesser) peak to the left of the right peak would appear to have occurred at approximately 15 kya.

The most current dating for the onset of the YD is 12.9 kya.


Hi nacom

IMO, the term YD reflects European bias, and the YD itself was caused by melt drainange.
The Holocene Start Impact Event is what you are refering to, and probably what those two spikes in 14C production were caused by.

To the right of the LEFT side of the graph you will see a spike which I believe is related to the large iron impact at "Meteor"
[Barringer] Crater.

The ca 31,000 bp spke was likely due to a large iron impact in what is today's Russia.

Nacon wrote:Does the article mention specific dates?
Edit: Addendum - Pulled up the CSFA article. The article cites 12.5 kya for the right peak.


The original data series Firestone used to create the graph [cited] gave at least one set of firm and absolute dates for the 14C samples.




E.P.

As previously referred to, articles that you may wish to peruse:

Carlson, Anders E.
2010 What Caused the Younger Dryas Cold Event? Geology, Vol. 38., No. 4, pp. 383-384.

Condron, Alan and Peter Winsor
2012 Meltwater Routing and the Younger Dryas. PNAS (available on line).

As always, timelines become a matter of serious consideration. This is one of the factors that brought Goodyear's earlier reports under close scrutiny (e.g. Gainey, etc.)

.
Nacon
 
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