Narragansett Bay Runestone Vanishes

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Re: Narragansett Bay Runestone Vanishes

Postby shawomet » Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:35 pm

J Henkel wrote:
shawomet wrote:No, sorry, I don't believe in censorship. [...] Who is going to make such a determination to publish or not at the publishing house?

Editing is not censoring. It's therefore the position is called "Editor" and not "Censor". The question is not necessarily "to publish or not to publish". There are different ways of selling a car. Some are responsible, others are not.


I understand, J Henkel. There may be more uncritical thinking applied to this stone and inscription soon. If it is returned it will be to a safe and suitable location at least.

Regarding the Kensington Stone, the Spirit Pond Stones, and the Narragansett Stone, if there is no truly incontrovertible evidence that they are medieval European, and I don't believe there is such evidence, then speculating on their meaning to such a degree that the Hooked X is seen as a symbol for the Holy Grail, itself interpreted as a symbolic designation of the secret bloodline of Christ, seems like putting a great deal of a very questionable cart, the secret bloodline of Christ, before the horse, when the horse cannot even be demonstrated to be incontrovertibly older then 19th-20th century, and is simply a rock with inscribed characters on Narragansett Bay. Personally, I would work with analyzing the horse first before diving so very deeply into the degree of speculation applied to these rocks by some. To me, JMO, this degree of speculation is almost no more provable or compelling, then claiming the inscription was carved by aliens from another galaxy. IMHO, connecting a rock which was undescribed prior to 1985, and thus unknown, to a theory which is itself extremely speculative and without substantial evidence, let alone any REAL proof, brings the narrative created closer to a work of fiction almost. I am not questioning the sincerity of the speculation, I am simply saying there are is no truly compelling connection between
the Hooked X on a stone in Narragansett Bay and a secret bloodline of Christ. I think that's quite a leap. I'm still open to the possibility the Hooked X was used by a group or groups in Medieval Europe. That seems like a natural and logical line of inquiry. Whether true or not, I can at least understand looking into that question. And placed by someone in modern times, wishing to "prove" Norse voyages to the New World, has to remain a leading candidate for the stones' origin. I believe that represents a path of least resistance until or unless truly compelling evidence suggesting it is older develops.
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Re: Narragansett Bay Runestone Vanishes

Postby shawomet » Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:02 am

shawomet wrote:I see that this thread has received quite a few views. Evidently there is interest in the story. For that reason, I would like to add some observations apart from the meaning or origin of the rock itself. In the book The Hooked X, the exact location of the stone was identified. In the documentary dealing with the American stones that display a Hooked X, "The Holy Grail in America", a map of Rhode Island was briefly shown, and the frame stopped if one wished to study said map. That map showed the exact location of the stone. And that documentary was shown repeatedly on the History Channel, and still is I believe. If a feature is in a position where it cannot be protected from harm, one simply does not publicly reveal it's location. I believe it was the height of irresponsibility to disclose the exact location of this feature. No responsible archaeologist would do so with an archaeological site. No responsible rock art researcher would do so either.



I have been remiss in not realizing I must revise the above statement. I am not suggesting disclosing the location had anything to do with the theft. I have absolutely nothing upon which to base such a suggestion. None whatsoever, and if the rock were to turn up tomorrow for that matter, it would be as much news to me as anyone else. I just believe in instances where a feature is not yet protected, disclosing the location is not a good idea.
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Re: Narragansett Bay Runestone Vanishes

Postby shawomet » Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:38 pm

A correction. I read a geological report on the rock, written in 2012 prior to its disappearance, and it is made of sandstone after all, and not granite as I stated earlier in this thread.
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Re: Narragansett Bay Runestone Vanishes

Postby shawomet » Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:02 am

J Henkel wrote:
shawomet wrote:One must hone discrimination of intellect to a fine degree to see through as baseless so many claims made in the marketplace of popular opinion. Many people are unable to do so.

Isn't that where responsibility kicks in? Publishers and program directors should be able to do so or to have it done at least. Otherwise you will have to accept incidents like the vanishing of the Narragansett Stone as a sacrifice to the marketplace of ideas. Shit happens. Next please.

Disclosure of the exact locations of archaeological features isn't the problem, really. You mentioned rock-carvings. The exact location of every registered and documented rock-carving (and runestone) in Denmark and Sweden is publicly available. Much more damage is done by publicly putting the artifacts and features into false kontexts. That's where information and education should rather go for a sound scientifically acceptable basis instead of a highly speculative and spectacular but commercially promising one.


J Henkel, here is a perfect example of how the United States contrasts with Scandinavia. Just in the news recently. Make a site well known, easy of access, then utilize social media to help create almost a flash mob showing up to vandalize natural beauty and ancient petroglyphs. This is the appalling state of ignorance and destruction that can result here in the states. This is how some Americans show their respect for our prehistoric and natural heritage. No real need to attach fanciful theories, a mere invite to desecrate is sufficient for some. And this is why I was stunned and concerned when the Narragansett Stone's exact location was revealed before it could be protected. BTW, I have learned recently that many people in the nearby neighborhood have been aware of the rock and inscriptions existence for more then 50 years. The path to understanding if it is of modern vintage may lay with interviewing them and recording their memories. I have also seen the state geologist's report which was inconclusive as to the age of the inscription but did show from earlier aerial photography that the rock was possibly well on shore as recently as 1939.

http://www.pe.com/local-news/local-news ... -lands.ece
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Re: Narragansett Bay Runestone Vanishes

Postby shawomet » Sat Apr 27, 2013 5:50 am

Perfect Ending: the Narragansett Stone has been returned!

http://eastgreenwich.patch.com/articles ... -be-tested

Photo taken of recovered stone in storage. See next link at comment below this one...
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Re: Narragansett Bay Runestone Vanishes

Postby shawomet » Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:42 am

The subject of the position of the shoreline came up in this thread, so I would like to summarize what the state geologist's report on the rock, prior to its' theft, turned up. Aerial photos indicate the rock was located a good 100 feet inland, and likely buried, in 1939. Not known if it was buried prior to the great Hurricane of 1938. If it was not visible until post 1939, that leaves open the possibility that the inscription was carved in the 1940's or 1950's, when the Vikings in America speculation, and associations with the nearby Newport Tower, etc., were at their height in the states. The residents of Pojac Point have memories of the inscription going back at least 50 years, or to the early 1960's. Of course, if buried, or not, prior to 1939, the inscription could predate that date and be genuine Medieval. To be pointed out is that the sea has encroached about 150 feet inland just since 1939. So, despite the discussion of how much or even if the sea rose at this section of shore, it turns out that there has been tremendous erosion at the location in only a little over 70 years.

7/7/2013 update, including details of the disappearance...
Memories of the inscription date to at least 1952, by an 89 year old resident of Pojac Point.

http://www.providencejournal.com/breaki ... -stone.ece
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Re: Narragansett Bay Runestone Vanishes

Postby shawomet » Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:31 am

Very important updates.

First, the stone may be modern in origin:

http://www.independentri.com/independen ... 0a356.html

Blog entry:

http://stonewings.wordpress.com/2014/06 ... ets-runed/

And it's found a permanent display location:

http://www.providencejournal.com/breaki ... e-park.ece
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Re: Narragansett Bay Runestone Vanishes

Postby kbs2244 » Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:17 pm

It was the summer of 1964 and Everett Brown was 13 years old.
“Back then, we did graffiti with a chisel, not a spray can,” he said.

Now there is a quote for the ages.

Now the question is how many skeptics of whatever are going to grab onto it?
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Re: Narragansett Bay Runestone Vanishes

Postby shawomet » Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:17 pm

kbs2244 wrote:It was the summer of 1964 and Everett Brown was 13 years old.
“Back then, we did graffiti with a chisel, not a spray can,” he said.

Now there is a quote for the ages.

Now the question is how many skeptics of whatever are going to grab onto it?


Well, if not that particular statement, the skeptics have indeed laid into Mr. Brown's account:


http://www.independentri.com/independen ... bf4b9.html

"On Wednesday, Pat (McMahon) Lindsay contacted the Independent and said she remembers seeing the rock and the inscriptions in 1948 when her family owned 18 acres on Pojac Point.
“I was 11 years old and I remember playing on the stone at low tide when it was showing and there were carvings,” she said. “We called it the Indian stone because we thought the Indians carved it.”
Lindsay, who now lives in Vermont, said her four sisters and one brother all remember seeing the carved stone well before 1964, when Brown claims he chiseled it.
Pat’s sister, Marcia O’Rourke of North Kingstown, corroborated the account.
“We saw it for a lot of years before 1964,” she said. “We know it’s been here. I have no idea where all of this is coming from. It’s just ridiculous.”

http://northkingstown.patch.com/groups/ ... d-in-1960s
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Re: Narragansett Bay Runestone Vanishes

Postby E.P. Grondine » Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:10 am

Other pictographs and petroglyphs have been defaced, going back to settler times.

Idols, work of the Devil, heathens, etc.

Fanatics come in all flavors, including European, as well as Arabic, Persian, and Hindu.

So now you have to figure out what was there initially, and what was added.
E.P. Grondine
 

Re: Narragansett Bay Runestone Vanishes

Postby shawomet » Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:50 am

A public statement by Everett Brown, the man who claims to have carved the inscription in 1964:

http://patch.com/rhode-island/northking ... 9ZGttq9KSM

BTW, one question that was answered in recent articles on the Narragansett Stone is what happened to it when it vanished. It was not taken out of state. It was instead taken to deeper water and dumped in Narragansett Bay. Fortunately, the person who did that knew right where it had been dumped.

Everett Brown declined to speak with investigators despite repeated attempts to contact him. The investigative division of the RIDEM concluded he could not prove his claim:

http://patch.com/rhode-island/north-kin ... -FuEdq9KSM
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Re: Narragansett Bay Runestone Vanishes

Postby shawomet » Fri Oct 30, 2015 7:08 pm

A case of all's well that ends well.....

http://turnto10.com/news/local/mysterio ... s-new-home
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