A technical question

The Western Hemisphere. General term for the Americas following their discovery by Europeans, thus setting them in contradistinction to the Old World of Africa, Europe, and Asia.

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A technical question

Postby E.P. Grondine » Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:25 am

Let's say, just hypothetically, that one had access to a small Shawnee pictographic inscription on stone. Let's say, just hypothetically, that it measured about 2-3 inches across.

What material would one use to get a clear impression of it, one that would not stick to the original, but would then set and retain detail?

Is there any material that could be used to gain an impression, that would then be hard enough to make a cast from?

How could you do it?
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Re: A technical question

Postby uniface » Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:16 am

Ask Pete Bostrum if he'd do it for you or at least outline the procedure.

FWIW
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Re: A technical question

Postby Tiompan » Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:23 am

IFRAO and rock art researchers will point out that any contact method for recording is far from ideal . Do you really need a 3d model ?

George
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Re: A technical question

Postby E.P. Grondine » Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:36 am

Thanks uniface.

Please remember that we're talking hypothetically here, in honor of the OHS and their great relationship with the judges of Ohio.

You may remember the hypothetical tablet the late Mr Lowe and the tablet from WVa he found, and the OHS's respect for his wishes for his neighbors.

So there is no question of anyone but me doing the impression, with the hypothetical artifact in its owners hypothetical hands.

And then I will simply share any resulting hypothetical sealing or casting with the hypothetical Shawnee, whose rights to their ancestors remains in Ohio the OHS will not honor. Like I said, we're talking hypothetical here, like "Late Fort Ancient" or "Hopewell".

So hypothetically, who is this hypothetical Pete Bostrum?
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Re: A technical question

Postby E.P. Grondine » Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:39 am

Tiompan wrote:IFRAO and rock art researchers will point out that any contact method for recording is far from ideal . Do you really need a 3d model ?
George


Hi Tiompan -

I understand your and their concerns, and high pressure is definitely out. I do not know what is currently used to make impressions of seal stones, scarabs, or small inscriptions in the ancient near east right now.

As far as need goes, yes. as I am pretty certain that the hypothetical pictographic object was used in 3D.

Also, OHS has some Shawnee pictographically inscribed "marbles" in their collections in storage which they do not display. I need access to them. I also would like access to some correspondence from the early 1800's which they hold.

By the way, have I mentioned that OHS has had the audacity to recently copy and then copyright as their own property certain illustrations of early Ohio? And then demand money for their use?
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Re: A technical question

Postby kbs2244 » Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:17 pm

This might make a good project for an engineering student to work with 3D measuring and then 3D printing or engraving.

You are not too far from the huge U of I campus.
Do you have any contacts there?

I have no idea if there would be any school to school complications.
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Re: A technical question

Postby uniface » Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:49 pm

http://lithiccastinglab.com/

Google is your friend. Usually.
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Re: A technical question

Postby E.P. Grondine » Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:47 am

Hi uniface -

They do beautiful work,
but I don't think that this hypothetical inscription will be going there.
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Re: A technical question

Postby hardaker » Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:52 pm

Guess the old piece of paper and pencil rubbing is out of the question?
Or clay?

Oh, excuse me, I thought it was petroglyphic; pictographic is with pigment and paint, right?
Chris Hardaker
The First American: The Suppressed Story of the People Who Discovered the New World [ https://www.amazon.com/First-American-S ... 1564149420 ]
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Re: A technical question

Postby E.P. Grondine » Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:11 am

Hi Chris -

First hypothetical thing I did, after hypothetically immediately asking for hypothetical permission.

But the hypothetical paper I hypothetically had at hand was pretty thick, and the hypothetical pencil too hard, so the hypothetical rubbing did not come out well.

(Just to clarify this I hypothetically rounded the hypothetical pencil's point and used the hypothetical side of its hypothetical lead to make aforementioned hypothesized rubbing.)

I can't even drive up to the OI in Chicago and try to learn what they use for seal stones now days.
Last edited by E.P. Grondine on Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A technical question

Postby J Henkel » Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:42 pm

Hi E.P.,

ideal hypothetical paper is 90-110 gram (less is also possible for fine details). Hypothetical frottage method: Rubbing on the paper with carbon paper wrapped around a roll of cloth (old jeans, old T-shirt etc.), hypothetical fixation with grass (absolutely necessary, otherwise you'll have a blank sheet of paper in a year or so...).
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Re: A technical question

Postby E.P. Grondine » Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:58 pm

Hi Joachim, Chris -

There is no paint or pigment hypothetically involved.

What hypothetically would be ideal would be whatever they currently use for seal impressions.
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Re: A technical question

Postby Ernie L » Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:14 pm

foil ?
Botch-A-Me ..oh and I hope you enjoy Rosemary Clooney's exuberance in the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0ICsfE2t7U

interfacing and colored wax...I have used this technique to make headstone impressions.
http://www.ancestryprinting.com/headstone.html
http://genealogy.about.com/library/tips/blrubbing.htm

but then you wanted a 3d representation didn't you...

The earlier suggestion that was made of using a 3d laser scan would be ideal...though it would probably involve more eye balls than desired.
Regards Ernie
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Re: A technical question

Postby E.P. Grondine » Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:15 am

Hi J. -

What is the "grass" used for fixing the image?
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Re: A technical question

Postby E.P. Grondine » Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:18 am

Hi Ernie -

Yes, I hypothetically desire a 3-D impression, preferably something that could later be turned into a hypothetical cast of the aforementioned hypothetical object.
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