A technical question

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Re: A technical question

Postby Tiompan » Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:00 am

E.P. Grondine wrote:
Tiompan wrote:Stonehenge has mortice and tenon joints on the lintels .


It is amazing to me that no one has thought through what this means as to how the Henges were erected.

I think one also has to ask why the archaeological community there has never addressed the problem of "Where were the toilets at Stonehenge?" Perhaps Freud or modern psychology could provide some insights into the answer to that question.

For me, the remains at the quarries used for Stonehenge would be of very high interest.

One has to remember that Britain had old growth trees then.

I am enjoying the new petroglyph studies of Stonehenge.


A henge consists of a ditched enclosure with an outer bank ,they rarely have associated stones . The monoliths at Stonehenge are not the henge and even the henge is not quite right as the bank is on the inside .
We know where the some of the smaller bluestones came from . In some cases as accurately as a matter of metres eg. Rhosyfelin at Pont Saeson , the general area for the source of the bluestones is around the Preseli Hills in Wales 140 miles to the west .
we don't know where the larger iconoc sarsen stones were sourced from ,they may have been local or as is often suggested moved from areas about 20-30 miles to the north .
Palynology suggests that the area around Stonehenge at the time of build was generally scrub with a few small trees .
The area has very little rock art but there are some engravings of axes and daggers on some of the monoliths , not quite typical rock art for Britain ,they were almost certainly engraved in the Bronze Age as the weapons they appear to represent are closest stylistically to that period.These engravings would have been done long after the erection of the monument .

George
Last edited by Tiompan on Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A technical question

Postby J Henkel » Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:34 pm

Thanks for the link, Ernie!

There are certainly secondary traditions connected to cupmarks, at least in Sweden and Denmark. Werner Brast mentions so called "pocket-cupmark-stones" (danish "lommeskålstene") which may have been used as portable "drug stores" for grinding powder (Source: Werner Brast (1982): Die Schalensteine. Ab wann, weshalb und wie. Mitteilungsblatt des Vereins für Vor- und Frühgeschichte. 33. Jahrgang, Berlin.). In some parts of Sweden, cupmark-stones were still in use in the 1920s. They were greased in some kind of rituals, e.g. to heal warts, broken bones etc. The healer or shaman is mostly described as - beware of folklore! - an old woman (Source: Mats Åmark (1956): När de sista skålgroparna smördes. Tidskriften Rig, Föreningen för svensk kulturhistoria i samarnbete med Nordiska museet och folklivsarkivet i Lund. http://www.ukforsk.se/gropar3.htm).

Even today cupmarks are used as offer-bowls. The day after documenting a cupmark stone at the wall of the church in Stege/Denmark I found coins lying in the cupmarks.

As far as I know, traces of prehistoric material have never been found in (scandinavian) cupmarks.
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Re: A technical question

Postby Ernie L » Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:22 pm

J Henkel wrote:Thanks for the link, Ernie!

I'm glad you found it interesting. There is a lot of information at that link..the formatting and text make it a challenge to read..but worth it I think.

J Henkel wrote:There are certainly secondary traditions connected to cupmarks..........The healer or shaman is mostly described as - beware of folklore! - an old woman ....

Beware indeed.. it (folklore) can be an convenient trap to fall into.
Being fully aware of that it is sometimes interesting to consider that some traditions(folklore) are very very old.
i.e.
I was reading about Skara Brae yesterday. It seems it was a tradition for the largest sleeping platform to be placed to right as one entered the living chamber. The smaller platform was to the left. Until recently it was a Heberdian tradition to place the mans bed to the right and the womans to the left of the room. * Wouldn't that be something amazing if that was a tradition passed down some five thousand years !

J Henkel wrote:Even today cupmarks are used as offer-bowls. The day after documenting a cupmark stone at the wall of the church in Stege/Denmark I found coins lying in the cupmarks.

Wow..people still need their spirits don't they !

J Henkel wrote: As far as I know, traces of prehistoric material have never been found in (scandinavian) cupmarks.

Are stone balls(petro spheres)such as these found in Great Britain also in Europe?
The first one is a masterpiece.
Image
Image
*Childe, V. Gordon; Clarke, D. V. (1983). Skara Brae. Edinburgh: Her Majesty's Stationery Office. ISBN 0-11-491755-8.
Regards Ernie
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Re: A technical question

Postby J Henkel » Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:56 pm

Ernie L wrote:..the formatting and text make it a challenge to read..but worth it I think.

I'm quite endurable with reading challenges after working with students at a university for some years...

Ernie L wrote:Are stone balls(petro spheres)such as these found in Great Britain also in Europe?

Don't know about petrospheres in continental Europe. There is a stone "pill" in Småland in southern Sweden, about 78 x 57 cm in diameter:
http://kmb.raa.se/cocoon/bild/show-imag ... 1000028556

Today it's lying next to a standing stone on top of the burial mound Inglingehög:
http://kmb.raa.se/cocoon/bild/show-imag ... 1000028550

Not exactly a petrosphere, not spherical enough, or does it qualify?

And how did this thread evolve from E.P.'s technical question regarding 3D-impressions of a hypothetical stone inscription to the question of placing of men's and women's beds in Hebridian rooms? Must be the spirits of the cupmarks...
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Re: A technical question

Postby Ernie L » Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:30 pm

I'm quite endurable with reading challenges after working with students at a university for some years...

Understood !


Don't know about petrospheres in continental Europe. There is a stone "pill" in Småland in southern Sweden, about 78 x 57 cm in diameter:
http://kmb.raa.se/cocoon/bild/show-imag ... 1000028556

I did some more reading about the balls and it seems most of the 441 were found in Scotland. They are not nearly the size of the "pill"..more like tennis ball sized.
http://www.infosources.org/what_is/Carv ... Balls.html


Not exactly a petrosphere, not spherical enough, or does it qualify?

petroovum ?

And how did this thread evolve from E.P.'s technical question regarding 3D-impressions of a hypothetical stone inscription to the question of placing of men's and women's beds in Hebridian rooms? Must be the spirits of the cupmarks..


Yes quite right.....I got interested in the subject petroglyphs and I went off on a petrosphere tangent and forgot where I was..so to speak........My apologies to Mr. Grondine for hijacking his thread.
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Re: A technical question

Postby E.P. Grondine » Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:52 am

How did the thread evolve into a discussion of megaliths?

Well, someone thought I was talking about "petroglyphs", not "pictoglyphs."

The comments on "frottage" were useful.

Perhaps I'll start it again, with a question on the use of "Sculpey" to make impressions.

These "spheres" are very interesting. Perhaps the most interesting of them are the duodecahedrons.
Usually people believe what they want to believe until reality intrudes.
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