A Maya Diaspora

The Western Hemisphere. General term for the Americas following their discovery by Europeans, thus setting them in contradistinction to the Old World of Africa, Europe, and Asia.

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Re: A Maya Diaspora

Postby circumspice » Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:30 am

kbs2244 wrote:I don’t know how many of you have been following this tempest in a teapot.
But I find it interesting.

Richard Thornton has been, for years, sniping at the established theories.
Mostly staying in the area of Ohio.
He seems to have hit a nerve in this one.

“There is nothing here to see. Move along.” ???

Check the news pages.


Um, a link would be nice... :lol:
"Damn with faint praise, assent with civil leer, and, without sneering, teach the rest to sneer." ~ Alexander Pope
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Re: A Maya Diaspora

Postby kbs2244 » Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:01 pm

Check the news pages.

There are 3 or 4 of them.
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Re: A Maya Diaspora

Postby Gary Svindal » Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:58 pm

Professor Thornton has opened a Pandora’s box, and it’s quite humorous to observe the indignant displays by the establishment Archeologists, who want Thornton to return to his Architectural classes and stop talking about archeology. Here is one link at [url=http://www.ajc.com/news/squabble-over-prsence-of-1283714.html]ajc[url], but this subject will only grow until we know.

If that link doesn’t work, just copy and paste this: http://www.ajc.com/news/squabble-over-p ... 83714.html
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Re: A Maya Diaspora

Postby Digit » Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:47 pm

I like to remind 'experts' that in nearly every case their discipline was founded by an ameteur.

Roy.
First people deny a thing, then they belittle it, then they say it was known all along! Von Humboldt
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Re: A Maya Diaspora

Postby Minimalist » Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:45 pm

And now we know what did in the Maya.

http://www.alphagalileo.org/ViewItem.aspx?ItemId=115859&CultureCode=en

Scientists Confirm Tobacco Use by Ancient Mayans
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

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Re: A Maya Diaspora

Postby War Arrow » Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:07 pm

Minimalist wrote:
Archaeologists have found southwestern turquois in mosaics at Chichen Itza and Mayan chocolate residue in drinking cups at Chaco Canyon.



Would not simple commerce be a more rational explanation?


I personally have not yet come across a mention of this which didn't give an entirely convincing account of the great distances covered by travelling traders. See also Mexica stuff found in Colombia (if memory serves).

Why must there always be a more complicated explanation, the sort which comes with 'misunderstood genius' credentials, clutching the theory to one's chest and crying out "fools, you will never understand!!!!"

A wacky theory is not necessarily rendered plausible by virtue of its unpopularity.
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Re: A Maya Diaspora

Postby Digit » Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:38 am

A wacky theory is not necessarily rendered plausible by virtue of its unpopularity.


True enough.

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Re: A Maya Diaspora

Postby circumspice » Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:32 am

War Arrow wrote:
Why must there always be a more complicated explanation, the sort which comes with 'misunderstood genius' credentials, clutching the theory to one's chest and crying out "fools, you will never understand!!!!"

A wacky theory is not necessarily rendered plausible by virtue of its unpopularity.




AMEN BROTHER!!! :lol:
"Damn with faint praise, assent with civil leer, and, without sneering, teach the rest to sneer." ~ Alexander Pope
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Re: A Maya Diaspora

Postby War Arrow » Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:54 am

Was thinking about this a little more this morning. There was a massive trade network across most of Mexico at least by the 15th century, and most likely earlier. Say you've got Town A in the far east, Town B in the centre at about 500 miles distance, Town C in the far west, about another 500 miles away; Town B conducts in trade with both A and C. What sort of mentallist is going to trek all the way from Town A to Town C when they can get Town C trade goods from Town B?

All for an open mind but sheesh...
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Re: A Maya Diaspora

Postby E.P. Grondine » Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:00 am

War Arrow wrote:
Why must there always be a more complicated explanation, the sort which comes with 'misunderstood genius' credentials, clutching the theory to one's chest and crying out "fools, you will never understand!!!!"

A wacky theory is not necessarily rendered plausible by virtue of its unpopularity.


Absolutely.

This type of thinkng results from misunderstanding the way scientific paradigms evolve.
A pardigm explains most of the evidence, but then data appears that the paradigm can not explain.
Then a new paradigm emerges that accounts for all of the observed data.
In between, the new paradigm competes with the old paradigm, until the data establishes the new paraadigm.
Usually people believe what they want to believe until reality intrudes.
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Re: A Maya Diaspora

Postby E.P. Grondine » Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:03 am

War Arrow wrote:All for an open mind but sheesh...


Yeah, but don't let your brain run out of your ears.
Usually people believe what they want to believe until reality intrudes.
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Re: A Maya Diaspora

Postby kbs2244 » Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:28 pm

This explains his “AHAH” moment.
He was actually looking for the famous (Infamous ?) Jewish/Cherokee connection when he “saw the light.”

From 2008 through the present, I have been looking for possible sites of 17th century Sephardic Jewish settlements in the Southern Highlands. Until mid-2011 I operated under the presumption that any ancient stone masonry in the region had to be

In July of 2011 I studied the Track Rock Gap petroglyphs near my home, again. On one of the boulders was the name, Liube, and the date, 1715. Liube is a Yiddish first name, not Sephardic, but it may have indicated a nearby Sephardic village, which had taken in Eastern European Jewish colonists.

I decided to take a walk across the county road to look for possible house sites.
A 20 minute hike took my dogs and I to the edge of the Track Rock Gap Terrace Site. I noticed some ancient fieldstone retaining walls. My presumption was that they were the foundations of European houses. Without going any further, I raced back to the Explorer and headed home to search to do research on the computer.

Within a few days, a member of a local historical society sent me copies of an 11 year old archaeological survey. I was absolutely astounded by its site plan, which was identical to the Maya terrace complexes in Central America. The archaeologists had obtained radiocarbon dates going back at least 1,100 years and soil samples of the terrace fill soil containing potsherds that were even older. Those archeologists missed the significance of the tierra preta (charcoal and potsherds) in the fill soil. That is a South American farming technique. I would have to totally rethink my concept of the Southeast’s pre-European architecture and cultural development. The rest is history.

http://www.examiner.com/article/guessin ... tone-walls

http://www.examiner.com/article/native- ... ts_article

http://www.examiner.com/article/second- ... ts_article
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Re: A Maya Diaspora

Postby E.P. Grondine » Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:05 am

What is notable is European descendants' tendency to look for early European presences in the Americas. At worst, contact data is then used to construct vast empires.

Someday, perhaps someone will point kb and this gentleman to Colin Renfrew's work on technology diffusion/migration.

I've already tried to point him to Creek proto-history, to no avail yet.

Whatever the shortcomings of my book, all of which I blame on earlier archaeologists, I believe that I am the first to seriously examine a newly discovered geological force on man in the Americas, adding impacts to volcanoes, regular climate variations, and pandemic diseases.
Usually people believe what they want to believe until reality intrudes.
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Re: A Maya Diaspora

Postby kbs2244 » Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:11 am

He claims some Cherokee blood.
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Re: A Maya Diaspora

Postby clubs_stink » Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:41 pm

There is a site near me, famous...a Maya elder friend of mine visited it and the first thing out of his mouth when he saw it was 'we built this' and he went on to explain how he knew this..couldn't argue with him...because another Maya elder I know who visited the site said the same thing..,they do not know each other. So...not too long ago I stopped in a rock shop near the site and the owner showed me some clay beads that a friend had dug up in a cache...he said they were not local..meaning made by local Indians...and lo and behold there before me was the famous Maya blue...some of the beads were red, others that amazing blue. Needless to say the Indians that are publicly credited with building this site never made such beads. Then I had a private chat with the curator who has since become a good friend. I asked about the dating of the site and was told straight out that the dates on the signs are untrue and that oldest charcoal pits dated the site to 1200 BC....but that they put 1200 AD on the signs and credited the site to local Indians rather than explain who and how had actually built it.
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