The Hooked X

The Western Hemisphere. General term for the Americas following their discovery by Europeans, thus setting them in contradistinction to the Old World of Africa, Europe, and Asia.

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Re: The Hooked X

Postby Tiompan » Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:46 am

E.P. Grondine wrote:You and I have a different definition of "ground breaking".
I am thinking in terms of paradigm shift.

For all his faults, Colin Renfrew qualifies in that category.
Styart Piggott also did ground breaking work in "The Druids".

James Churchward (Mu) and Ignatius Donelly (Atlantis) outsell all of those you mentioned.


Clearly , I wasn't talking about fantasy . Renfrew despite the clangers is a fine writer and archaeologist . Piggots Druids was pop single .
Do Paradigm shifts apply to pseudo science ,and should we care ? Sales , what have they got to do with it ?
George
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Re: The Hooked X

Postby E.P. Grondine » Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:28 am

Tiompan wrote:
E.P. Grondine wrote:You and I have a different definition of "ground breaking".
I am thinking in terms of paradigm shift.

For all his faults, Colin Renfrew qualifies in that category.
Styart Piggott also did ground breaking work in "The Druids".

James Churchward (Mu) and Ignatius Donelly (Atlantis) outsell all of those you mentioned.


Clearly , I wasn't talking about fantasy . Renfrew despite the clangers is a fine writer and archaeologist . Piggots Druids was pop single .
Do Paradigm shifts apply to pseudo science, and should we care ? Sales , what have they got to do with it ?
George


Hi George -

You have to remember that the public as a whole do not differentiate between fantasy and psuedo-science as you and I do. You have to remember that for me, the DENIAL of recent impacts killing people is a fantasy - a mental escape mechanism from a real hazard.

Sales indicate what people think, or want to think, their fascinations.

Yes, paradigm shifts do occur in cult archaeology. For example, we're now seeing much of the same old nonsense being re-packaged in terms of extra-terrestrial contact. This has to do with the commercial ties recently established.

Wolter's work is much the same, where Norse contact with North America is being repackaged in terms of Masons and Templars. Dan Brown started that with his book DaVinci Code, the themes for which he admits to receiving from David Hatcher Childress, who in turn plagiarized them from the earlier authors of Holy Blood, Holy Grail; but their work gave some hint of Hitler's deep ties with the Theosophist cult the Thule Society.

You need to PM me with an e-mail address, and I'll send you my history of it, and you'll learn how dangerous cult archaeology is. As usual, I take the most interesting material and make it terribly boring.

Like I said before, it's all great fun until the bodies start piling up.

I'll disagree with you on both Renfrew and Piggott. I've had brief contact with Renfrew several times; the list of possible interactions between two peoples, set out in my book "Man and Impact in the Americas" is a far more useful apparat than Renfrew's simple diffusion/migration paradigm, which does not work at all in the Americas, and fails entirely to describe the first peoples interactions.

As a matter of fact, now that you've brought it up, Renfrew's simple paradigm does not work particularly well in Europe either. I remember one session at the AAA in DC, where Renfrew was prattling on about diffusion, while another excavator was showing a site with the a large number of skeletons piled in a garbage pit.

OAS, if you're following this thread, you want to PM me with an e-mail address as well.
Usually people believe what they want to believe until reality intrudes.
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Re: The Hooked X

Postby Minimalist » Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:42 am

What the History Channel really needs to do is a series on impact events


You may have to produce them yourself. When they do run a show about comets or asteroids it is of the "WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE variant.

"Disaster" sells too.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

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Re: The Hooked X

Postby Digit » Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:05 pm

Somebody on another forum was commiserating with me about cancer, I ponted out that it depends on how you look at it.
Okay, you can say i was unlucky to get it, but equally I was lucky to have it found early.
My point?
If something hadn't wiped out the Dinos we probably wouldn't be here, if it wasn't for volcanos a lot of land would be missing even if they do destroy, land swept away by the sea is oft deposited elsewhere as new land.
Depends on how you look at things.

Roy.
First people deny a thing, then they belittle it, then they say it was known all along! Von Humboldt
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Re: The Hooked X

Postby E.P. Grondine » Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:19 pm

Minimalist wrote:
What the History Channel really needs to do is a series on impact events


You may have to produce them yourself. When they do run a show about comets or asteroids it is of the "WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE variant.

"Disaster" sells too.


So far, only the large ELE impacts - they're remote in time and not likely to occur soon.

So, don't write recent real small ones, and don't put an end to many of the mysteries which these con men exploit. You have to have some spiritual angle as well - take a look at Graham Hancock in action over at http://www.dailygrail.com

And don't upset the manned Mars fantasists, or the Global Warming folks, or male white anthropologists.

I expect that "Man and Impact in the America" will do quite well after I've passed. Undoubtedly my work will be mined for materials in the future by many.

As far as video goes, once the YD is definitively proved, undoubtedly the History Channel will mine my book, and may come to me for free talking head footage. They'll use their own narrators to recite the Native American traditions of it, which I recovered.

As of the present, I have heard my own work mirrored back to me without attribution.
Life can be strange sometimes.

min, I liked your earlier advice about moving to Judaeo-Christian materials and times.
But then I'd get caught up in those debates and near eastern politics and nationalism.
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Re: The Hooked X

Postby E.P. Grondine » Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:21 pm

Digit wrote:Somebody on another forum was commiserating with me about cancer, I ponted out that it depends on how you look at it.
Okay, you can say i was unlucky to get it, but equally I was lucky to have it found early.
My point?
If something hadn't wiped out the Dinos we probably wouldn't be here, if it wasn't for volcanos a lot of land would be missing even if they do destroy, land swept away by the sea is oft deposited elsewhere as new land.
Depends on how you look at things.

Roy.


Hi Roy -

It is hard to view an entirely preventable massive loss of human life in a positive way.
Usually people believe what they want to believe until reality intrudes.
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Re: The Hooked X

Postby Minimalist » Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:16 pm

It is hard to view an entirely preventable massive loss of human life in a positive way.



If you could arrange for an impact on a substantial gathering of tea bagging morons I might be inclined to see the silver lining........
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin
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Re: The Hooked X

Postby E.P. Grondine » Thu Aug 11, 2011 3:18 pm

Minimalist wrote:
It is hard to view an entirely preventable massive loss of human life in a positive way.


If you could arrange for an impact on a substantial gathering of tea bagging morons I might be inclined to see the silver lining........


min, it doesn't work that way. You don't get to pick and choose.
Usually people believe what they want to believe until reality intrudes.
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Re: The Hooked X

Postby dannan14 » Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:12 pm

E.P. Grondine wrote:Hi Roy -

It is hard to view an entirely preventable massive loss of human life in a positive way.


It's quite easy actually. There are too many humans on the planet consuming far more than the Earth is replacing. A devastatingly large loss of human life fixes that problem. The problems that replace it are ones the Earth has recovered from many times in the past. i hope to live to see the day that a big one hits. If i'm lucky i can be a "The Earth Abides" type of survivor.
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Re: The Hooked X

Postby Minimalist » Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:22 pm

min, it doesn't work that way. You don't get to pick and choose.




Shit.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin
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Re: The Hooked X

Postby E.P. Grondine » Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:05 am

dannan14 wrote:
E.P. Grondine wrote:Hi Roy -

It is hard to view an entirely preventable massive loss of human life in a positive way.


It's quite easy actually. There are too many humans on the planet consuming far more than the Earth is replacing. A devastatingly large loss of human life fixes that problem. The problems that replace it are ones the Earth has recovered from many times in the past. i hope to live to see the day that a big one hits. If i'm lucky i can be a "The Earth Abides" type of survivor.


Hi Danaan -

Cosmic Combat - you're assuming it will be the other guy that gets it, not you.
And you're looking forward to watching the spectacle of an impact.

Well, if the overpopulation problem is that severe, why wait for an impact, when you can take personal action right now? :p)

Life on Earth has recovered many times, and perhaps would do so again.
The catch is that the life wasn't human.

Then there are the "smaller" ones. While man did pretty good earlier, it was a close thing, happening about once per million years. When you hear the geneticists prattling on about DNA bottlenecks, that's what they're seeing, though they don't know it yet.

By the way, survival after impact was no party. The climate collapses.
It's not fields of plenty, but more like starvation to the point of cannibalism.

As far as those still "smaller" impacts, see my book. Man usually just migrated into the depopulated areas. I'm thinking about writing a little SF comedy, where California, Oregon and Washington are depopulated by an impact mega-tsunami, and then the Mexican and Canadian "rescue" teams begin to clash - haven't come up with a good title yet, though, and I'm open for suggestions.

Thanks for the attempt.
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Re: The Hooked X

Postby dannan14 » Fri Aug 12, 2011 8:38 pm

Hehe, no assumptions, hence the use of the word "hopefully". And human life doesn't need to make it. We've had our run, did pretty well for a while, but the last few millennia show we're just not it.

But, if i am one of the lucky survivors, the "no party" scenario you describe would be very exciting. i'd be all about scratching out a new paradigm...even if i didn't have it easy like they did in "The Earth Abides".
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Re: The Hooked X

Postby E.P. Grondine » Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:27 pm

Hi Danaan -

You'd be all about scratching out something to eat, and that would be about it.
The next generation would not likely know what a "paradigm" was.

This was a pretty entertaining SF read:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Canticle_for_Leibowitz
But it has nothing to do with the way things really work. Sorry.
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Re: The Hooked X

Postby dannan14 » Sat Aug 13, 2011 4:27 pm

Hehe, go out into the woods and food is everywhere you look.....you just have to know what it looks like.
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Re: The Hooked X

Postby dannan14 » Sat Aug 13, 2011 4:38 pm

E.P. Grondine wrote:This was a pretty entertaining SF read:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Canticle_for_Leibowitz
But it has nothing to do with the way things really work. Sorry.


i haven't read it yet, but what about it has nothing to do with the way things really work? i mean, there has yet to be a nuclear war on this planet so you don't really have much to base your opinion on.
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