Old Vermont

The Western Hemisphere. General term for the Americas following their discovery by Europeans, thus setting them in contradistinction to the Old World of Africa, Europe, and Asia.

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Old Vermont

Postby kbs2244 » Sun May 15, 2011 9:55 am

It looks like it may have been “New England” (or at least New Britain) long before the 1600’s

This is a 6 part photo essay on very Brit looking, often megalithic, sites in Vermont.


Folder name: Divine Vermont:
Download link:

http://www.mediafire.com/folder/04352x6odimke
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Re: Old Vermont

Postby rako » Wed Oct 26, 2016 11:14 am

Thanks for posting this, KBS, but can you please just post some of the main images here and what you have to say about them? That way we don't have to go through the "hoops" on the site and download each PDF. It will also open up discussion to make talking about things more focused.

May I please ask if any mainstream studies have been done on the sites, like with carbon dating and digging up skeletons for testing of DNA?
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Re: Old Vermont

Postby kbs2244 » Wed Oct 26, 2016 3:39 pm

I am sorry.

As much as I may be with you in theory, my experience is that you are beating on a broken drum.

With the money they have from casinos the current "Native Americans" or "First Peoples" are not going to allow any kind of publicly funded research that endangers their claims of being the original inhabitants, or discovers, of North America.

It may be true, but as long as they can make political contributions, it is not going to come to the surface.
Do your research and grind your teeth.
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Re: Old Vermont

Postby rako » Thu Oct 27, 2016 8:42 am

kbs2244 wrote:I am sorry.

As much as I may be with you in theory, my experience is that you are beating on a broken drum.

With the money they have from casinos the current "Native Americans" or "First Peoples" are not going to allow any kind of publicly funded research that endangers their claims of being the original inhabitants, or discovers, of North America.


It may be true, but as long as they can make political contributions, it is not going to come to the surface.
Do your research and grind your teeth.


The government in Upton is paying major funds to buy, restore and analyze the site. SEE:
http://www.milforddailynews.com/x119284 ... te-testing

I believe that they are sincere or else they would not have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on it. I don't know why they couldn't get an archaeologist team to do the work successfully. I don't think blaming Amerindians for interfering with research is relevant. I don't see that happening. You have a town that is paying megabucks for research, you don't need federal grants, I don't know why the town and regional archaeologists would not do it successfully.

My request to you is to please post here the images you are talking about or some excerpts from your files, Old Vermont. That way we can read them easily.
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Re: Old Vermont

Postby kbs2244 » Thu Oct 27, 2016 11:15 am

I am sorry, all the images are embedded in the PDF files.
There are a lot of them and I do not have any way to pull them out.
You will have to "go through the hoops" of downloading them.
It is not hard, they are free and you do not have to sign up for anything.
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Re: Old Vermont

Postby rako » Thu Oct 27, 2016 1:56 pm

kbs2244 wrote:I am sorry, all the images are embedded in the PDF files.
There are a lot of them and I do not have any way to pull them out.
You will have to "go through the hoops" of downloading them.
It is not hard, they are free and you do not have to sign up for anything.


If you authored the PDF files, you may still have them on your computer and can post them. Feel free to copy and paste any text directly from your PDFs.

You say that you have found "Brit-type" structures. This finding matches the fact that many British colonists made underground root cellars. Finding Brit-type structures is actually normal.

So we really need to rely on more detailed data like bronze artefacts or analysis of erosion on the megaliths before we can assert that the chambers are pre-colonial.

Giovanna Peebles, Vermont’s State Archaeologist. Peebles has spent years researching these stone chambers and documented her findings in her exhaustively footnoted book Vermont’s Stone Chambers: An Inquiry into Their Past. ...
Peebles and two researchers examined every chamber, scrutinized the deeds for every parcel of land they were found on, scoured the history of each town where these chambers existed, and pored over century-old agricultural publications. And at the end of it, Peebles came away quite convinced that she had answered the questions that she had been charged with. “While there are still many archaeological puzzles in Vermont,” she concluded, “the stone chambers are not among them.”
...
It is true that the New England chambers bear a striking similarity to some ancient Celtic structures in Europe. But Peebles points out that similarities of this kind don’t always imply a cultural connection. Often they result from people in similar landscapes with similar materials trying to solve similar problems. Still, context is important, so Peebles tracked down similar structures wherever she could find them. She stumbled upon nearly identical stone chambers in Iceland, all of them used as root cellars. On a tip from the cultural historian Eric Sloane, she researched farms in Pennsylvania, where she found beautifully illustrated records of historical root cellars. “And they looked just like our stone chambers.”

http://northernwoodlands.org/articles/a ... e-chambers
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Re: Old Vermont

Postby shawomet » Wed Nov 30, 2016 6:22 am

rako wrote:
kbs2244 wrote:I am sorry.

As much as I may be with you in theory, my experience is that you are beating on a broken drum.

With the money they have from casinos the current "Native Americans" or "First Peoples" are not going to allow any kind of publicly funded research that endangers their claims of being the original inhabitants, or discovers, of North America.


It may be true, but as long as they can make political contributions, it is not going to come to the surface.
Do your research and grind your teeth.


The government in Upton is paying major funds to buy, restore and analyze the site. SEE:
http://www.milforddailynews.com/x119284 ... te-testing

I believe that they are sincere or else they would not have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on it. I don't know why they couldn't get an archaeologist team to do the work successfully. I don't think blaming Amerindians for interfering with research is relevant. I don't see that happening. You have a town that is paying megabucks for research, you don't need federal grants, I don't know why the town and regional archaeologists would not do it successfully.

My request to you is to please post here the images you are talking about or some excerpts from your files, Old Vermont. That way we can read them easily.


Your info on the Upton Chamber study is somewhat out of date:

http://www.milforddailynews.com/article ... /151026998

https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... e_Research
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Re: Old Vermont

Postby kbs2244 » Thu Dec 01, 2016 2:53 pm

The study seems to be predisposed to prove that the "cave" is pre-colonial and thus "Native American."
This is playing right into their hand since it assumes anything pre white European in the 1600s is "Native American."

BTW, I am not an anti red man bigot.
I just wish they had not adopted the whole "We were here first" idea to exclude any previous cultures.
They have an argument that they were ill treated by the white man.

But being here before the white man dose not carry through that there was no one before them.
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Re: Old Vermont

Postby E.P. Grondine » Fri Dec 02, 2016 3:35 pm

kb -

While the topic of later Asian or European visitors to the Americas is open and interesting -
here is who was here first -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nfn9XzC ... hp&index=6

By the way, some Native American stone cairns are covered in my book.
Usually people believe what they want to believe until reality intrudes.
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Re: Old Vermont

Postby circumspice » Sat Dec 03, 2016 12:42 pm

EP... This video has very poor sound quality & like min mentioned before, it's very distracting & annoying to have you continually turn away from the camera to change the slides. You really ought to correct those problems before posting more videos.
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Re: Old Vermont

Postby kbs2244 » Sat Dec 03, 2016 1:12 pm

The problem I have with this is that none of the tribes described in historical (white) accounts tell of the "natives" building with stone.

At the most huts built with tree saplings, not even heavy logs.
Nothing meant to stay around very long.
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Re: Old Vermont

Postby circumspice » Sun Dec 04, 2016 12:44 am

kbs2244 wrote:The problem I have with this is that none of the tribes described in historical (white) accounts tell of the "natives" building with stone.

At the most huts built with tree saplings, not even heavy logs.
Nothing meant to stay around very long.


So, I guess that non-white natives in the Americas couldn't possibly have built with stone? Kind of like the theories that Great Zimbabwe couldn't possibly have been built by black Africans? How interesting.

For centuries, European explorers and colonialists were baffled by the sophistication of the stone ruins at Great Zimbabwe, which many of them considered beyond the ability of the natives to construct. Looking for another explanation, early historians and archaeologists suggested any number of implausible solutions, such as the idea that they were constructed by an Arab state or even King Solomon of Israel. It was not until the 1950s that scholars began to accept the idea that Great Zimbabwe had indeed been built by a local people, likely the Bantu-speaking Shona still located in modern Zimbabwe. Such was the weight of racism in early anthropology, which denied even the obvious when it conflicted with ideas of European supremacy and African primitivism.
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Re: Old Vermont

Postby circumspice » Sun Dec 04, 2016 11:13 am

kbs2244 wrote:The study seems to be predisposed to prove that the "cave" is pre-colonial and thus "Native American."
This is playing right into their hand since it assumes anything pre white European in the 1600s is "Native American."

BTW, I am not an anti red man bigot.
I just wish they had not adopted the whole "We were here first" idea to exclude any previous cultures.
They have an argument that they were ill treated by the white man.

But being here before the white man dose not carry through that there was no one before them.


@kbs: The problem with anti red man bigots is their wish to find an explanation, ANY explanation, for any cultural remains in the new world that excludes the known indigenous peoples...

You say that it's possible that there were white people in the new world BEFORE the current Native Americans.

Tell ya what... Show definitive proof. Many bigots who predate YOU have failed to do so. But hey... You can always try.

And, saying that you aren't a bigot doesn't prove you aren't a bigot. That's called lip service. Perhaps you can also claim that some of your best friends are Native Americans?

Bigotry is bigotry, not matter how you present it.
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Re: Old Vermont

Postby kbs2244 » Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:54 am

I never said that any pre-current tribes were white.
I really don't care what color they were.
Just accept the evidence that they were there.
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Re: Old Vermont

Postby Kalopin » Mon Dec 05, 2016 6:52 pm

circumspice wrote:
kbs2244 wrote:The study seems to be predisposed to prove that the "cave" is pre-colonial and thus "Native American."
This is playing right into their hand since it assumes anything pre white European in the 1600s is "Native American."

BTW, I am not an anti red man bigot.
I just wish they had not adopted the whole "We were here first" idea to exclude any previous cultures.
They have an argument that they were ill treated by the white man.

But being here before the white man dose not carry through that there was no one before them.


@kbs: The problem with anti red man bigots is their wish to find an explanation, ANY explanation, for any cultural remains in the new world that excludes the known indigenous peoples...

You say that it's possible that there were white people in the new world BEFORE the current Native Americans.

Tell ya what... Show definitive proof. Many bigots who predate YOU have failed to do so. But hey... You can always try.

And, saying that you aren't a bigot doesn't prove you aren't a bigot. That's called lip service. Perhaps you can also claim that some of your best friends are Native Americans?

Bigotry is bigotry, not matter how you present it.


[...and so, by this same logic- just saying you are not an idiot does not prove you are not an idiot?]
You say that it's possible that there were white people in the new world BEFORE the current Native Americans.
Tell ya what... Show definitive proof.

Circ, I had just posted this in "Beringia"- viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3804
http://www.ancient-origins.net/myths-le ... bes-005774
25 April, 2016 - 14:57 ancient-origins
Ancient Race of White Giants Described in Native Legends From Many Tribes

...now, why would so many tribes describe these same people? No, I am not saying they are responsible for all the structures being discussed, or that any of the indigenous people would have been incapable, but the evidence is quite clear, with little debate- that there was a race of white "giants" on the north American continent long before "mainstream" gives credit...

[...and I think your jumps to conclusions and insults, many times, oversteps the boundaries of a civil conversation, especially accusations of "bigotry"...]

I believe you all will find this to be much more complex than to point to one scenario, but it is my belief that the first people to arrive in the "new world" were on a mission to find survivors from a great cataclysm that had incinerated and sterilized the entire north American continent approx. 13kya [YDB]
[...and was the result of the Moon impacting the Mediterranean sea...]
This is the story being told, once you dig a little deeper...

[...maybe should use a larger font? ;-]
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