Solved: The Roman Jews of Tucson

The Western Hemisphere. General term for the Americas following their discovery by Europeans, thus setting them in contradistinction to the Old World of Africa, Europe, and Asia.

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Solved: The Roman Jews of Tucson

Postby hardaker » Sat Oct 09, 2010 12:31 am

Something has turned up and I wanted to propose it to the forum. Many strange artifacts interpreted as evidence of pre-Columbian voyages to the New World are based on textual and/or symbolic evidence. As an archaeologist, context is everything, and in my experience many of these artifacts with texts have poorly recorded proveniences, or none at all. Many are now missing, documented either by line drawings or if lucky, photographs. That’s why I have always been attracted to the 32-piece assemblage of lead artifacts, known as the Tucson Artifacts, or as the Roman-Jewish Relics, discovered in 1924. I regard it to be one of the most underrated mysteries of the Americas. Their context and recovery were well documented by professional geologists and archaeologists, with many photos taken; they are presently stored at the Arizona Historical Society in Tucson. Their history is discussed in Don Burgess’s, “Roman Jews in Tucson? The Story of an Archaeological Hoax,” (Journal of the Southwest, Spring 2009, 51:1); it is the entire issue, and you can purchase it ala carte. His conclusion was that it is probably a hoax that was carried out during the course of the excavation.

I have reason to believe that this was not a hoax. I do not think the assemblage was meant to be accidently found. I think it was a cache from Sherod Hunter’s regiment stationed in Tucson in 1862. I think it was regalia from a Civil War field lodge used for Masonic ceremonies, and which may have included individuals affiliated to the Knights of the Golden Circle, connected to General Albert Pike. There were a number of Christian crosses, two with coiled snakes, six compound crosses riveted together and containing 8th Century Latin text, spears on broken shafts, short swords, Jewish ceremonial items; symbols include a dinosaur with his tongue sticking out, square and compass designs. The coiled snake on a cross is a theme associated with the Masonic 25th Degree, The Knight of the Brazen Serpent.

An artifact found under a 50-year old Mesquite tree provides a maximum date of ca. 1874. Also, the artifacts were scattered over a 2500-foot area on an eroding terrace, and then covered up all together, buried between three to six feet below the modern surface. There was absolutely no evidence of pits dug to plant the pieces under the surface; this is verified in the photographs and by multiple professional accounts during the discoveries, including comments by Dr. Neil Judd who personally excavated two of the pieces; Judd was a nephew of UAz’s Dr. Byron Cummings, and a Smithsonian archaeologist working at Chaco Canyon. To do all that earthmoving, an army begins to make sense.

I am wondering if the Knights of the Golden Circle might be somehow involved. It all depends on the merit of stories surrounding hidden Confederate caches of gold and treasures, and also stories about symbols and signs coded for directions or secret notes, etc. Confederate General Albert Pike was renowned for his use of symbols and languages, including Latin, Greek and Hebrew. These artifacts were made of lead, so their intrinsic value might be low. On the other hand, the text and/or symbols might contain coded geographic information (?).

Sample links:
http://treasuretrovegold.blogspot.com
http://treasuretrovegold.blogspot.com/2 ... signs.html
http://treasuretrovegold.blogspot.com/2 ... rst-2.html

If this kind of symbolic hanky panky was going on by the Confederates, could some of the anomalous artifacts or rocks with foreign languages on them – like the Hebrew at Las Lunas, NM and Big Bend? -- could some of these turn out to be affiliated to Confederate activity? Are some of these alleged evidences for pre-Columbian diffusion actually evidence of Confederate Masonic activity tied to groups like the Knights of the Golden Circle? Were some of these anomalous artifacts found along known Confederate routes?

Problem is, I don't know if these tales of KGC caches are true, and I haven’t dealt with Civil War issues at all; I do have a background in symbols.

Is it a connection worth pursuing?
Chris Hardaker
The First American: The Suppressed Story of the People Who Discovered the New World [ https://www.amazon.com/First-American-S ... 1564149420 ]
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Re: Solved: The Roman Jews of Tucson

Postby Digit » Sat Oct 09, 2010 2:33 am

Is it a connection worth pursuing?


The answer to that would be decided by any results, without pursuit we will never know.

Roy.
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Re: Solved: The Roman Jews of Tucson

Postby kbs2244 » Sat Oct 09, 2010 8:37 am

I would love to have someone do a good analysis of these finds.

My sequences of importance would be:

Los Lunas
The “Roman” artifacts.
The Civil War Cashes.

My reasoning is that this is the inverse order of currently available information.

There are tons of books about hidden war loot.
The lead crosses have some good, some bad, stuff written about them.
But Los Lunas just sits there begging for some attention but is completely ignored.
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Re: Solved: The Roman Jews of Tucson

Postby uniface » Sat Oct 09, 2010 9:07 am

I can't help you with advice on how to proceed, but the (from unreliable memory) Mimbres pottery unearthed in the Southwest that features letters of the old semitic alphabet (ref. Barry Fell book or books), I wouldn't be in a rush to attribute them to the Confederates even though that connection is certainly plausible (even probable in light of what you've pointed out).
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Re: Solved: The Roman Jews of Tucson

Postby Rokcet Scientist » Sat Oct 09, 2010 9:26 am

uniface wrote:I can't help you with advice on how to proceed, but the (from unreliable memory) Mimbres pottery unearthed in the Southwest that features letters of the old semitic alphabet (ref. Barry Fell book or books), I wouldn't be in a rush to attribute them to the Confederates even though that connection is certainly plausible (even probable in light of what you've pointed out).

That Massachusetts shekel comes to mind.
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Re: Solved: The Roman Jews of Tucson

Postby Minimalist » Sat Oct 09, 2010 9:37 am

General Pike, a fascinating character, from all accounts, is credited with writing the lyrics to this version of Dixie:


www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vPVTqWJd28

He also wrote, in a later phase of his life, this comment which is the best summary of religious fervor that I've seen:


If we had opened our eyes to the light under the shadows
of St. Peter's at Rome, we should have been devout Catholics; born in the
Jewish quarter of Aleppo, we should have contemned Christ as an
imposter; in Constantinople, we should have cried "Allah il Allah, God is
great and Mahomet is his prophet!" Birth, place, and education give us our
faith. Few believe in any religion because they have examined the
evidences of its authenticity, and made up a formal judgment, upon
weighing the testimony. Not one man in ten thousand knows anything
about the proofs of his faith. We believe what we are taught; and those are
most fanatical who know least of the evidences on which their creed is
based.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

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Re: Solved: The Roman Jews of Tucson

Postby Digit » Sat Oct 09, 2010 9:40 am

How very true!

Roy.
First people deny a thing, then they belittle it, then they say it was known all along! Von Humboldt
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Re: Solved: The Roman Jews of Tucson

Postby Rokcet Scientist » Sat Oct 09, 2010 10:44 am

Few believe in any religion because they have examined the
evidences of its authenticity, and made up a formal judgment, upon
weighing the testimony.

Afaik that is – in western countries – not the case anymore. Unless you call 40% of the population being defacto atheist a "few".
Proving that what was written once does not automatically retain its value over time. Like with a constitution.
Last edited by Rokcet Scientist on Sat Oct 09, 2010 10:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Solved: The Roman Jews of Tucson

Postby hardaker » Sat Oct 09, 2010 10:48 am

These are some links to the Tucson Artifacts I forgot to include in the post.

http://www.conspiracybomb.com/puzzlingrelics.htm
http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/1996-03- ... -in-ruins/
http://azstarnet.com/news/local/article ... b52e9.html


Thanks for the feedback. I am in no way an anti-diffusionist. In fact, I adore the work that has been done with the Olmec and the Shang Dynasty; it looks like a really good and tight fit. And now that boats have been unleashed for at least 10,000 years if not a lot more, there are possibly other Old World connection. On the other hand, there are a lot of singular types of squirrelly things out there. I just wish the idea occurred to me when I lived in the Southwest hood. I am hoping to interest some Civil War buffs on the subject since they probably know the Confederate routes. If the location of some of the anomalous artifacts turn up along those routes, there might be something to this. (On the other hand, a lot of those routes may have been around before Columbus.)

And thanks for the Pike quote. What a character.
Chris Hardaker
The First American: The Suppressed Story of the People Who Discovered the New World [ https://www.amazon.com/First-American-S ... 1564149420 ]
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Re: Solved: The Roman Jews of Tucson

Postby Minimalist » Sat Oct 09, 2010 11:39 am

Few believe in any religion because they have examined the evidences of its authenticity



Pike was speaking of the ones who "believe" not those who have given up on it.



Chris, I suspect the issue would be how prevalent was Freemasonry among the Confederate command structure. There is another aspect though. Mormons had a vested interest in "finding" ( or planting ) "evidence of Jewish occupation of America and they were active in the West beginning in the late 1840's.

This map gives an idea. You may find it interesting.

Image
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

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Re: Solved: The Roman Jews of Tucson

Postby hardaker » Sat Oct 09, 2010 12:03 pm

Hi Min,
From what I read about the history of the Relics, the Mormons ended up not liking the pieces because the dates were too late. Their lost tribes were supposed to be over here around 400-200 BC, I think. They heard about them immediately back in the 1920s.

The weird thing is, both discoverers Manier and Bent, and AE Douglas were Freemasons. Plus, the assemblage had been stored in a Freemason Temple up in Phoenix for decades. And nobody made the connection to Albert Pike and secret caches, and strange symbols and foreign languages?

It was a only a lead assemblage, not silver or gold or something of value. On the other hand, what if it contained information about some treasure or cache of real value. The assemblage was found adjacent to Silverbell road, an old stagecoach route; access would have been easy.

So I guess what I am wondering -- and it is something I never dreamed I would ever say in my archaeological life -- maybe there is a treasure map or info about a cache that is coded in the relics somehow. I flunked out of Spanish in the 9th grade so I'm useless in trying to figure it out.
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Re: Solved: The Roman Jews of Tucson

Postby Minimalist » Sat Oct 09, 2010 12:47 pm

the Mormons ended up not liking the pieces



And early christians denounced Origen, one of their earliest writers, as a heretic when conditions changed.

As the song says "You can't always get what you want."
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin
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Re: Solved: The Roman Jews of Tucson

Postby hardaker » Sat Oct 09, 2010 1:55 pm

Isn't Origen the guy who believed in Christian Reincarnation, and that if he had not arrived late at Nicea, on policy voting day, that he would have helped push reincarnation over the top as a primary accepted belief for the new church?
Chris Hardaker
The First American: The Suppressed Story of the People Who Discovered the New World [ https://www.amazon.com/First-American-S ... 1564149420 ]
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Re: Solved: The Roman Jews of Tucson

Postby Minimalist » Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:01 pm

As I recall...and its been a while since I read him...Origen had problems with the Trinity as later defined by the orthodox and also rejected the concept of everlasting hell....which might be what you are referring to.

That was enough to get his fanny kicked out of the club.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin
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Re: Solved: The Roman Jews of Tucson

Postby hardaker » Sat Oct 09, 2010 5:18 pm

At any rate, when I came across these entries at a treasure website, I really did a double take given the overlapping symbols with the relics, like snakes and daggers and spearheads. There's a lot more, but I have to wonder if some of the out of place or strange artifacts that turn up here and there might have come out of the civil war.


------------------------------------

http://treasuretrovegold.blogspot.com/2 ... olden.html

Many in the treasure hunting community believe that Jesse and Frank James were, among other things, Knights of the Golden Circle (KGC) "Sentinels." Whether this is completely true is open to debate.

What is not open to debate, however, is the fact that Jesse, Frank, and the James gang as a whole buried numerous small-to-medium sized treasure caches throughout Missouri, Oklahoma, Kansas, and Arkansas. A number of these caches have been identified, researched, tracked down, and recovered in recent years.

Surprisingly enough, many of these caches were found by following treasure signs and symbols that belong to the KGC pantheon. With that in mind, here are more KGC treasure signs and symbols:

Sun(s) (Carved or etched images of the sun should be noted, especially if they have "rays" radiating out from the sun circle itself. Could mean that the center of the sun is the treasure location or one or more of the rays point to one or more treasure caches.)

Carved or Oddly Shaped Rocks (These often appear "out of place" in their current surroundings and are immediately recognizable. They have this effect for a reason. Stop and take note of your surroundings. Note: A search of the immediate area with a metal detector might be a good move on your part. J.R.)

Snakes (The snake symbol invariably "points" the way to a treasure trove or cache. If you run across 2 or 3 snakes etched or drawn in parallel with one another, they may indicate multiple caches.)

Bird Tracks (Usually these are 3-toed tracks drawn or carved as simple connected lines leading a certain direction that typically leads, in turn, to treasure.)




http://treasuretrovegold.blogspot.com/2 ... en_24.html

Daggers, Knives, Swords (These symbols often have multiple meanings. If the blade symbol is pointing downward it can mean treasure is here or nearby; if the blade points upward it may mean that you must press farther on; and if crossed blades are used it may mean "X" marks the spot or beware, danger is close.)

Window Rocks (Window rocks are fairly common here in the Southwestern U.S. where I live. Typically these are geologic formations where erosion has, over time, etched or "eaten" away the center portion of the rock formation leaving an open "window." In a treasure context window rocks are signs or views to treasure when one stands at a certain position and looks through them. The problem here is that many window rocks are simply natural elements without any treasure significance. However, if you are on a proven or researched treasure "trail" and come across a window rock formation, take heed. It may provide a critical clue to the location of a treasure trove.)

All-Seeing Eye (A very ancient symbol, the omniscient or all-seeing eye is a very common Masonic symbol that was adapted and used by the KGC as well. A good example can be found on the reverse of any U.S. one-dollar bill. The eye's meaning can be different things to different people, including an "inside" message or direction to a KGC member or "Sentinel." For the rest of us mortals, the eye is open to interpretation from a treasure hunting standpoint. "You are being watched," "look here," "look beyond," "search inside," etc.)
Chris Hardaker
The First American: The Suppressed Story of the People Who Discovered the New World [ https://www.amazon.com/First-American-S ... 1564149420 ]
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