Ardveich

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Ardveich

Postby Tiompan » Sun Feb 27, 2011 4:25 am

I thought you might like to see some recently discovered rock art .Found yesterday .

http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/sit ... veich.html

George
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Re: Ardveich

Postby Rokcet Scientist » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:31 am

Lots of room for speculation, isn't there?
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Re: Ardveich

Postby Tiompan » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:52 am

Rokcet Scientist wrote:Lots of room for speculation, isn't there?



Any suggestions ?

george
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Re: Ardveich

Postby Minimalist » Sun Feb 27, 2011 10:11 am

Image


What is the terrain like? For example, is there a ledge above this site where water might drip down or does this stone sit in the open. It is Scotland and obviously rainfall is a common occurrence but I wouldn't expect rain to carve out such holes unless it were directed to specific targets.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin
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Re: Ardveich

Postby Tiompan » Sun Feb 27, 2011 11:14 am

Minimalist wrote:Image


What is the terrain like? For example, is there a ledge above this site where water might drip down or does this stone sit in the open. It is Scotland and obviously rainfall is a common occurrence but I wouldn't expect rain to carve out such holes unless it were directed to specific targets.


That particlar stone is just one of 8 in the immediate area , as I mentioned in the fieldnotes , single cup marks are pretty dull to all but anoraks but the other stones have examples of multiple cupmarks . The markings are man made and typical for the rock art tradition , no overhangs and in one case , a rare one , the markings on an almost vertical surface .

George
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Re: Ardveich

Postby Minimalist » Sun Feb 27, 2011 3:03 pm

Okay. One has to assume that someone will call it a geofact and I'm glad you've covered that possibility.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin
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Re: Ardveich

Postby Tiompan » Sun Feb 27, 2011 3:18 pm

Minimalist wrote:Okay. One has to assume that someone will call it a geofact and I'm glad you've covered that possibility.


But it/they is not a geoafct Min ,they are artefacts , man made examples of rock art in the Atlantic tradition although similar examples can be found world wide . Have a look at the multiple covered surfaces in one case there 33 cup marks on a surface that whilst not prerviously smooth would have been as regular as you might expect for a rock of it's type ,another has 42 cups cups covering most of the surface area .It is possible to find examples of rocks with natural markings that look relatively similar these are caused by weak cementation process in the rock which weakens under normal rain and freeze thaw conditions to produce circular to oval depressions but an experienced eye can differentiate between the two .

George
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Re: Ardveich

Postby Minimalist » Sun Feb 27, 2011 4:01 pm

But it/they is not a geoafct Min ,they are artefacts



Of course they are. But there are plenty of examples of people trying to dismiss artifacts as geological anomalies when it suits them. We've been through this before with a discussion of how many flakes can be taken off a stone before someone admits it was made by humans and not geology. IIRC, Charlie Hatchett used to use six flakes as a starting point for his finds in Texas.

In the instance you are citing I cannot fathom why someone would sit around carving holes in a rock but it is obvious that they did so.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin
Minimalist
 
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Re: Ardveich

Postby Tiompan » Sun Feb 27, 2011 4:19 pm

Minimalist wrote:
But it/they is not a geoafct Min ,they are artefacts

the instance you are citing I cannot fathom why someone would sit around carving holes in a rock but it is obvious that they did so.


There is no shortage of "explanations " for cup marks ,most unconvincing and refutable , these days context is the main consideration rather than interpreation in serious studies . I did mention in the fieldnotes that the rocks occupy much the same contour and are on an obvious terrace which would ahve provided the most obvious route through the hills that route has two other marked rocks a couple miles further on , one of which is among the pics . I ahve noted similar circumastances with some other marked rocks I know and have found , not all though , and in these cases it does seem that they could be considered as route markers or possibly territorial markers . It is noteeworthy that rocks that fit into this category are relatively prominent and easy to see and the markings tend to be simple e.g. cup marks but there is another category of marked rocks that are less obvious , often under turf , and more ornate .They appear , like the rock art found in passage graves etc to have a different function .

George
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Re: Ardveich

Postby Minimalist » Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:16 am

and in these cases it does seem that they could be considered as route markers or possibly territorial markers .


Possible in both cases. If a route marker one would expect some trace of the route to remain and if a territorial marker then there might still be other examples defining the "territory." I like those better than the customary fallback position: that it is some sort of "ritual."
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin
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Re: Ardveich

Postby Tiompan » Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:40 am

Minimalist wrote:
and in these cases it does seem that they could be considered as route markers or possibly territorial markers .


Possible in both cases. If a route marker one would expect some trace of the route to remain and if a territorial marker then there might still be other examples defining the "territory." I like those better than the customary fallback position: that it is some sort of "ritual."


Purely dependent upon the context , in this case it is applicable , similar markings in a passage grave suggest something closer to "ritual " or at least less utilatarian .
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