Lake Titicaca Civilization

[Beagle]

http://www.officialdisclosure.com/discovery.htm

Using earth orbiting satellites, acclaimed researcher David Flynn has studied the high plateau of Bolivia and found previously undiscovered unnatural patterns stretching outward from Lake Titicaca for hundreds of square miles. The geoglyphic works range from arrow straight parallel lines, enormous over lapping perfect circles and rectangles to 'labyrinth like' systems of walls and mounds extending over every feature of the terrain.

I've been up late reading what I can find on the internet. I think this article is really interesting, and it brings up all of that Lake Titicaca mystery again. We never completely finished talking about it. Do the stories of Viracocha sound at all familiar?

BTW, I feel sure that those maze-like ditches in the picture are irrigation canals. I'll get in here at some point tomorrow and post more on it.

[War Arrow]

Interesting article, Beagle. Definitely a few familiar ideas in there - the extinct giants destroyed by a flood etc. The central Mexican equivalent were called the Quinames (literally giants if I remember correctly) and Fr. Mendieta (v. late 16th century, maybe early 17th) reports seeing their bones in his Historia Eclesiastica Indiana (Book II) - mammoth bones I think, though I guess very similar stories are not uncommon in other cultures.

[Flintz]

Very interesting indeed, Beagle

*fires up google earth*

[Minimalist]

However, the altitude of the Bolivian high plain presents several problems with a farming related explanation for the majority of the geoglyphs in the region.

I can't recall if it was in Hancock or not, but I seem to recall a farming technique developed which outperforms even modern fertilizer-based yields. Also, Hancock's observation was that Tiahuanaco was left high and dry after the lake receded. It would be interesting to know if any of these "anomalies" extend into areas which were underwater at the time.

[woodrabbit]

Beagle, thank you for starting this thread. Looking forward to where it goes/leads!

Visited Tiwanuku about 8 years ago, and there are definately things yet to be explained about this place.

Currently re-reading Hancock, and was reminded about the theory regarding Lake Titticaca's level being much HIGHER when Tiwinaku active. (There will always be the question by whom and when first, to be dealt with later in this thread I'm sure)

Upon visiting the town of Copacabana, the port/resort with nearest access to the Islands of the Sun and Moon. (also interesting megalithic observatory above town) There is an Incan/PreIncan road that "dissappears" into the lake at a steady and predictable angle, that would indicate that the Lake level has also been LOWER in its past.

The Island of the Sun has a small Archaeological museum/hut that has a stone coffer with a card stating it was retreived by divers from otherwise undocumented underwater ruins. I hear diving at 12,000ft above sea level can be tricky.

Besides being one of the most beautiful spots on the planet, it seems that there has seen some heavy geological lifting and heaving going on not so long ago in the Halocene +-. (Charles Hapgood anyone?) Also if my memory serves, there is no undue salinity in the water that might acompany a massive evaporation or possible sea origins.

It so far has been hard to find any definitve Geological chronolgy for the region, just alot of speculation and "camps". Any Geologist among us?

As for the terraces and raised fields, they are everywhere and easily discernable from the ground. Appearing and first look to be more related to the contours of the terrain, drainage and economy of effort rather than some grand design.

Recent field studies have shown the terracing continues to be a very efficient and sophisticated "lost" heritage of agriculture that is highly adapted to successful farming in an otherwise pretty inhospitable landscape......and the Google views does make one think again and perhaps outside the box.

Bauer and Stanish's "Ritual and Pilgramage in the Ancient Andes" has some excellent images of the intense terracing of the region as seen from the ground.
Will need to reread the Pre-Incan Chapter, will report back.
Also pictures from trip that unfortunately was pre-digital for me. Will do my best.

[Beagle]

http://www.officialdisclosure.com/giants.htm

The author of the OP is David Flynn. He is described only as a researcher. Shades of Hancock. He is definately outside of orthodox thought about Tiwanaku. So each person will have to cherry pick his findings for themselves.

I don't know if he is completely correct about his interpretations of his satellite photos, but they are very interesting. This link is from the OP and has quite a few photos.

It's in this area, outside Tiwanaku, that the Pokotia monument was found.
I'm glad there is some interest. Woodrabbit I hope you'll tell us all about your visit and what thoughts you have about the place.

[woodrabbit]

Interesting on the ground insight into David Flynns observations today on NPR.

"We are moving our crops higher up the mountain," he says. "They are healthier, and we get a better yield at the higher altitude"

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... d=87811933[quote[/quote]

[Beagle]

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=87811933

Your link didn't work Woodrabbit, but here it is.

And yes, since plants thrive on sunlight, higher elevations can be ideal, if the farmer can prevent freezing. Those mazelike irrigation ditches actually helped keep the plants warm enough through the night to prevent frost damage.

[woodrabbit]

Beagle, thanks for correcting my NPR link. I'm new at this.

As fascinated as I am by his observations, I guess my response to Flynn and his hyperbole is a bit jaundiced.....

Having seen a rather spectacular UFO display myself, I limit my wonder to the "U", unidentified part of the experience.

In that spirit, the Lake Titicaca region is interesting enough and worthy of much serious survey without taking a satellite view of potato farming features possibly (place your number here) centuries old and still being used today into speculations of Giants and confirmations of dire straights come some December night 4 years hence....though definately worthy of a seriously good party.

I find his "It must be GIANTS" approach (great band by the way) does a serious disservice to the investigation of the area and dare I say... it's a tad rascist. His paper could/should have lost the last page, and would have been just as interesting.

While still doing good science, a different choice of syntax could have honored the indigenous population with the huge body of knowledge they hold regarding farming in the worst of conditons and still leave a key above the door, in case any Giants do decide to show up.

[Beagle]

Yep, Flynn is a bit "out there". My impression though was that his reference to giants was regarding the legend of Viracocha. Hancock discussed the similarity of this legend with the very similar creation legend found in Mesopotamia.

If Flynn thinks the legend is true he is a bit wacko.

[Minimalist]

In "fish stories" the fish never gets smaller over time.