Ten biblical "plagues" in Egypt/Thera volcano?

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Ten biblical "plagues" in Egypt/Thera volcano?

Postby popelane24 » Sun Dec 23, 2007 9:56 pm

I've been reading a book called "The Bible is History" by Ian Wilson. In it he posits the idea that a volcano just off of Crete (on an island called Thera caused the biblical plagues of Egypt. In an eruption (I think around 1500 BC) a great ash cloud headed southwest to Egypt and caused all the disturbance. He points to what has happened in relatively recent volcanoes (ash cloud = sun blotted out, a "fine dust" causing inflammation and boils = ash in recent times causing major skin problems, livetock deaths caused by smothering and poisoning from ash etc...)

I was wondering if there has been any recent discussions on this theory, or alternative theories, as I find it to be the best Ive heard.
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Postby Beagle » Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:54 pm

PL, while a volcano like Thera can do a lot of "belching" and "burping" before it finally explodes, it's still hard to correlate all of the Biblical plagues to one event.

Also, the Israelite presence in Egypt is most strongly associated with the "Hyksos". If you google Hyksos I recommend that you disregard any theories by Jacobovici. He has no credibility as he is merely a movie producer.

Good luck in your search.
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Postby Minimalist » Mon Dec 24, 2007 12:33 am

Wilson is a charlatan. If you want to learn the archaeological history of Egypt stick to someone like Donald Redford.
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Postby kbs2244 » Mon Dec 24, 2007 1:21 pm

From a completely different point of view:
The Ten Plagues were supposed to be “Miracles.”
Miracles do not have logical, scientific reasons for happening.
They wouldn’t be miracles then.
They are miracles because they defy those laws of science.
If you believe they were miracles, you don’t have to look for a historical reason for them happening.
And BTW, the volcano timing is all off.
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Postby Digit » Mon Dec 24, 2007 1:36 pm

They are miracles because they defy those laws of science.


Quite! But many things that now have a scientific explanation would have been classed as miracles not all that long ago.
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Postby Minimalist » Mon Dec 24, 2007 2:40 pm

Miracles do not have logical, scientific reasons for happening.


Kb is quite correct. This unseemly push by devout "scientists" to find logical and scientific explanations for these miracles quite misses the point that these are to be accepted on "faith" alone. I, of course, cannot simply do that but I know what kb means.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

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I've heard of miracles too

Postby popelane24 » Mon Dec 24, 2007 8:30 pm

I can understand the idea of miracles. I guess its just because I have yet to experience one. But I beleive in a Higher Power, and noone can deny things like faith healings, for example.... they happen.

But I thought that volcano idea was pretty good.

kbs2244, I'm wondering what time you think the plagues happened?
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Postby Minimalist » Mon Dec 24, 2007 9:15 pm

and noone can deny things like faith healings, for example.... they happen.



Really?

http://www.whydoesgodhateamputees.com/god5.htm

For this experiment, we need to find a deserving person who has had both of his legs amputated. For example, find a sincere, devout veteran of the Iraqi war, or a person who was involved in a tragic automobile accident.

Now create a prayer circle like the one created for Jeanna Giese. The job of this prayer circle is simple: pray to God to restore the amputated legs of this deserving person. I do not mean to pray for a team of renowned surgeons to somehow graft the legs of a cadaver onto the soldier, nor for a team of renowned scientists to craft mechanical legs for him. Pray that God spontaneously and miraculously restores the soldier's legs overnight, in the same way that God spontaneously and miraculously cured Jeanna Giese and Marilyn Hickey's mother.

Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

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Postby Forum Monk » Mon Dec 24, 2007 10:12 pm

Of course, if God made it a practice to heal amputees you'd have a bunch of kooks cutting their limbs off just to watch them grow back.

:lol:
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Postby Minimalist » Mon Dec 24, 2007 10:43 pm

That's a fair point, Monk.

Then again....he should know that ahead of time, right?
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

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Postby kbs2244 » Tue Dec 25, 2007 12:34 pm

I put the Exodus, and thus the plagues, at about 1513 BC

The old dating of Thera was 1500 to 1550 BC and that would have worked for his theory. But those dates were based on early radio carbon dating techniques.

The newer dating methods, tree rings (dendrochonogical) and ice cores put Thera 100 years earlier. 1600 to 1650 BC.

You are new here. Do a search on radio carbon dating. As a group, I think we have started to look at radio carbon as a shaky dating technology. It does not have the rock solid, no questions allowed, reputation it used to have. For sure not the earlier stuff. And not in the Northern Hemisphere.

There are a number of dating techniques in use now, and you have to get some correlation between them before you can give a sure date.

And you are right Digit.
As we have learned more, especially in medicine, the number of "miracles" has gone down and the number of routine procedures have gone up. But then, they weren’t really miracles were they? They were just happenings that were following scientific laws we didn't know about yet.
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Postby Digit » Tue Dec 25, 2007 12:56 pm

Carbon 14 dating shaky KB? I'll say, even the 'corrections' that have to be made are basically guess work. Even with some recent material the spread of dates can be of limited use. I think it's had its day.
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Postby Minimalist » Tue Dec 25, 2007 9:44 pm

I put the Exodus, and thus the plagues, at about 1513 BC



Egypt, at that time, was chasing the Hyksos out of their country and subjugating Canaan. It would retain hegemony over Canaan for the next 4 centuries. There is absolutely no indication to show that Egypt's power and prestige was at all damaged by a series of plagues. Their military success over their neighbors shows that they were near the height of their power in the 18th Dynasty.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

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Thera

Postby Cognito » Tue Dec 25, 2007 9:54 pm

I put the Exodus, and thus the plagues, at about 1513 BC

The old dating of Thera was 1500 to 1550 BC and that would have worked for his theory. But those dates were based on early radio carbon dating techniques.

The newer dating methods, tree rings (dendrochonogical) and ice cores put Thera 100 years earlier. 1600 to 1650 BC.

We have been through this before on this Forum. The Thera eruption dates to 1628bc according to dendrochronological results. Some biblical "scholars" are simply trying to redefine evidence. :roll:
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Postby Forum Monk » Wed Dec 26, 2007 12:05 am

There is the tempest stele http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempest_Stele erected by Ahmose I c. 1550. Its not clear if the disaster described is from Thera nor is it clear when the disaster may have struck but apparently it was not cleaned up until Ahmose reigned.
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