Burrow's Cave

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Burrow's Cave

Postby clubs_stink » Tue May 22, 2007 1:03 pm

I did a search and this has not been discussed here before. Read a lot...many pros, and of course CLUB cons. I was searching things that might be related to the "off oak island" issue I posted links to and another issue I am personally involved in that has not seen the big "light of day" as yet.

What is the concensus about this around here?
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Re: Burrow's Cave

Postby Charlie Hatchett » Tue May 22, 2007 1:22 pm

clubs_stink wrote:I did a search and this has not been discussed here before. Read a lot...many pros, and of course CLUB cons. I was searching things that might be related to the "off oak island" issue I posted links to and another issue I am personally involved in that has not seen the big "light of day" as yet.

What is the concensus about this around here?


First time I've heard of the site.

From the images I looked up online, looks like Egyptian art.

Do you have an online, professional paper or two we could all read.

We have discussed the possibility of ancient man making trans-atlantic crossings in other threads.

Interesting. I'd like to learn more.
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Postby Minimalist » Tue May 22, 2007 1:39 pm

This,


Image


doesn't look all that Egyptian to me. Of course, it does not look Native American, either. Which brings up the question of just what the hell is it?


http://www.faculty.ucr.edu/~legneref/archeol/arcil.htm
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Re: Burrow's Cave

Postby clubs_stink » Tue May 22, 2007 1:59 pm

Charlie Hatchett wrote:
clubs_stink wrote:I did a search and this has not been discussed here before. Read a lot...many pros, and of course CLUB cons. I was searching things that might be related to the "off oak island" issue I posted links to and another issue I am personally involved in that has not seen the big "light of day" as yet.

What is the concensus about this around here?


First time I've heard of the site.

From the images I looked up online, looks like Egyptian art.

Do you have an online, professional paper or two we could all read.

We have discussed the possibility of ancient man making trans-atlantic crossings in other threads.

Interesting. I'd like to learn more.


The available information about this site runs two gambits HATE BURROWS IT'S A HOAX (the club types) and the others more anarcheologists who think it was not a hoax.

From what I read the original landowner (about 1840) found a gold breast plate item...then Burrows accidentally finds the cave..then after fighting with people for so long and resisting all kinds of trickery to show the cave he dynamited it closed. I read that there IS a dynamited cave and that more recent explorations have found this and discovered that in destroying the entrance he collapsed some of the interior as well and it is flooded.

(the above is the long story short..of course)

Burrows has been accused of all kinds of treachery...

some of the links I've read include:
http://www.wovoca.com/controversies-burrows-cave.htm

http://www.philipcoppens.com/burrowscave.html

I came across this when searching certain key words related to the "new" off oak island issue which I have been privately assured is NOT a fraud and I was asking private questions related to what I read about the "new" oak island issues because if THAT is not a fraud then it has huge implications for what I am involved with that I KNOW is not a fraud because I've been involved in the story from the get go (an accidental discovery that has led to other things...that lead to the middle east WAY before the club would ever admit to) and if the Burrow's story is true I am quite worried about the guy who has stumbled on this because it seems like they are relentless to discredit anything...that disagrees.

Sorry to be obtuse about the guy I know but I am sworn to secrecy on details but I can say I have seen photos and since I have been in on this since the first discovery which has NOTHING to do with the latest (he truly stumbled on this new thing while searching for more of the FIRST) I can say that what he has found has no business being where it is at...ever...but there it is.

I have requested entrance into the private forums about Burrows...I read that there was a current investigation and it led me here:

http://p073.ezboard.com/bancientlosttreasures

here are more photos

http://www.philipcoppens.com/burrowscave_img.html
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Postby Forum Monk » Tue May 22, 2007 2:37 pm

Just musing, but feeling too lazy tonight to do any credible research in these OOPS.

I wonder how far this cave is from the Mormon trail?

Everything looks a bit - how can I say it - lost jewish tribes-like?

Like I said. Just musing and speculating about Clubs earlier posts.
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Postby clubs_stink » Tue May 22, 2007 2:37 pm

I just got an email from my guy..they are going to be getting more photos and I am planning to make a personal visit to the site..will share photos.
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Cave

Postby Cognito » Tue May 22, 2007 3:04 pm

I just got an email from my guy..they are going to be getting more photos and I am planning to make a personal visit to the site..will share photos.

Clubs, I've known about the Burrows Cave for quite some time, but really cannot weigh in on whether it's a hoax or not. This site is similar in nature to the Las Cruces, New Mexico inscriptions. Something totally out of place that "appears" to be a hoax. Until a reputable archaeologist (or you) visits, I would proceed with caution. So ... please visit the site and give us your honest feedback! :D
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Re: Cave

Postby clubs_stink » Tue May 22, 2007 3:10 pm

Cognito wrote:
I just got an email from my guy..they are going to be getting more photos and I am planning to make a personal visit to the site..will share photos.

Clubs, I've known about the Burrows Cave for quite some time, but really cannot weigh in on whether it's a hoax or not. This site is similar in nature to the Las Cruces, New Mexico inscriptions. Something totally out of place that "appears" to be a hoax. Until a reputable archaeologist (or you) visits, I would proceed with caution. So ... please visit the site and give us your honest feedback! :D


Oh sorry I did not mean that to read that I was going to Barrows..(although depending on if I get "in" with the guys or not I might be able to wing it) I am planning on visiting another U.S. site that I know for SURE is not a hoax...just WHAT it is I do not know as yet...what the evidence shows thus far is that it COULD be related to the "new" off oak island issue and if Barrows is NOT a hoax..then it would be along those lines. All I know is that I have been in on this since the initial accidental discovery following the saga...and this is not a hoax.
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Postby Charlie Hatchett » Tue May 22, 2007 3:14 pm

The evidence seems sketchy, at best. Why no images of artifacts in the cave? The artifacts and the cave seem disassociated. Do you have links to any formal reports or images of artifacts still in the cave?

Don't get me wrong. I think it's possible, but the evidence in this case is pretty slim.
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Postby clubs_stink » Tue May 22, 2007 3:25 pm

Charlie Hatchett wrote:The evidence seems sketchy, at best. Why no images of artifacts in the cave? The artifacts and the cave seem disassociated. Do you have links to any formal reports or images of artifacts still in the cave?

Don't get me wrong. I think it's possible, but the evidence in this case is pretty slim.


Charley as far as I know Burrows refused to show anyone outside close family the cave and blew up the entrance when things got so intense. You can find all kinds of sicko things that were done/said including pedophilia and other horrible crap that the "club" associates were swinging. I've seen quite a few photos, that are certainly of interest but real or hoax? I am certainly not qualified to judge. If I get admitted into the private sanctum I might gain some more info one way or another and for all I know there is current investigation. I know that people have tried but the cave is well and truly blown up.

the only thing of PURE interest is the 1840 find of the gold breast plate but as far as I can tell that story is andecdotal..meaning I have no idea where it's gone or where the story came from.

Right now (due to the find of my friend) I would have to say that my mind is a lot more open to this than previously.
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Postby Charlie Hatchett » Tue May 22, 2007 4:39 pm

Charley as far as I know Burrows refused to show anyone outside close family the cave and blew up the entrance when things got so intense.


And therein lays the problem. Now how do we validate the site. How do we tie the "artifacts" to the cave? If the site was genuine, then Burrows blew it by detroying it. :cry:
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Postby clubs_stink » Tue May 22, 2007 5:01 pm

Charlie Hatchett wrote:
Charley as far as I know Burrows refused to show anyone outside close family the cave and blew up the entrance when things got so intense.


And therein lays the problem. Now how do we validate the site. How do we tie the "artifacts" to the cave? If the site was genuine, then Burrows blew it by detroying it. :cry:


exactly..now, I don't know what else might be happening there until I get in (or not) to the current private site.

My interest is more..."what if"...because of the site my friend is currently working. I am going to try to head out there in the next three or four weeks.

I noticed no one has mentioned the mysterious "oak island" updates I posted links to...previously I have been only mildly interested in Oak Island as a "mystery" that was fun to read about and I came across this new stuff 100% accidentaly following leads and links for a (supposedly) different subject. I was not as dumbstruck as I had imagined I would be reading such things (makes me wonder why :D ) but I was immediately struck by the parallels between what was being said about the "findings" and what I KNOW my friend found...hence more research and my finding the Barrows stuff. After I read the oak island stuff I immediately set about finding out if the person running the site had any reason to believe this was a 100% hoax...I explained why I wanted to know and shared a video with him and told him I would try to get permission to share a TELLING photo with him.

What I found most interesting is that I feel the fellow "telling" the new oak island secrets is off base in his interpretations (he admits he was not in the inner circle and is only telling what he overheard and saw..thus his interpretations of what he saw is certainly open to discourse.) The story was slammed..and I do mean slammed (as can often happen in forums among people with pet theories and a life invested in them.) But I was not so put off by the detractors because I KNEW what my friend had found...thus I ended up feeling more intrigued..I sent my friend the link and I thought he would blow a gasket with joy...he felt validated for all his years (some might say wasted) following a "trail" from one stupid accidental find...because although we do not KNOW exactly what this is or what it means, the trail is without a doubt the middle east.

This should be most interesting as the story unfolds
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Postby clubs_stink » Tue May 22, 2007 5:12 pm

Forum Monk wrote:Just musing, but feeling too lazy tonight to do any credible research in these OOPS.

I wonder how far this cave is from the Mormon trail?

Everything looks a bit - how can I say it - lost jewish tribes-like?

Like I said. Just musing and speculating about Clubs earlier posts.


I think not close since I seem to recall some link between the lakes copper mines ect...didn't the Mormons head straight out west? I hold an unflatering opinion of the Mormon foundations/religion in general so I'm not an unbiased expositor. :D

I have been poking around on a few of the "die hard" Oak Island sources and have noticed one thing in particular...the "carved stone" found in the pit has THREE of the symbols that are carved into the stone near my friend's site and thus I am led to believe that the "translation" of that Oak Island stone is in grave error.
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Postby Charlie Hatchett » Tue May 22, 2007 5:14 pm

Let us know if you come across any hard evidence. :wink:

Don't lay any of your own money out. So far it seems like a con scheme.

To prove this theory, first of all you have to be able to tie the "artifacts" to the cave:

Over three thousand rock fragments, engraved with a variety of ancient drawings, hieroglyphs and script, were presented to the world by Russell Burrows in 1982, who discovered them in a cave system in Southern Illinois.


Certainly, the Burrows Cave boasts a few forms of wolf and jackal-headed deities, from the classical Anubis to half human versions


Then you have to prove their antiquity:

This is no straight forward set of hieroglyphs but, an inexplicable display of several cultures, a huge library preserved on stone tablets, collected together and sealed in a cave sometime around the first millennium.


The advocates of this theory need to put up or shut up. They've had plenty of time to publish a convincing paper, photo-document artifacts in situ, have 14C and SEM analyses performed, etc...

It's not like this site has been ignored, it's just there's no solid evidence to analyze.
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Postby clubs_stink » Tue May 22, 2007 6:28 pm

Charlie Hatchett wrote:Let us know if you come across any hard evidence. :wink:

Don't lay any of your own money out. So far it seems like a con scheme.

To prove this theory, first of all you have to be able to tie the "artifacts" to the cave:

Over three thousand rock fragments, engraved with a variety of ancient drawings, hieroglyphs and script, were presented to the world by Russell Burrows in 1982, who discovered them in a cave system in Southern Illinois.


Still inwork...


LOL no worries about me laying out any money...far as I know the only "money" collected was amongst a group of cavers to purchase an underwater camera. He's never solicited for money and there seems little reason to do so from what I know and have seen of his site thus far. They only thing they need to do is find a way into the cave AROUND the booby traps. There is no way this site will ever turn into a Borrows Cave or Oak Island debacle. Just won't unless some of the team become unwise and it gets blabbed.
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