Mythological cosmogony and the Big Bang

The study of religious or heroic legends and tales. One constant rule of mythology is that whatever happens amongst the gods or other mythical beings was in one sense or another a reflection of events on earth. Recorded myths and legends, perhaps preserved in literature or folklore, have an immediate interest to archaeology in trying to unravel the nature and meaning of ancient events and traditions.

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Mythological cosmogony and the Big Bang

Postby Ishtar » Tue Nov 04, 2008 8:54 am

This month’s Scientific American has got an interesting article on the fact that there may not have been a Big Bang, but a Big Bounce — an implosion that triggered an explosion, all driven by what they call exotic quantum-gravitational effects.

It also says that, according to this quantum theory, the universe will never die.

If we imagine rewinding the expansion of the universe back in time, the galaxies we see all seem to converge on a single, infinitesimal point: the big bang singularity.

At this point, our current theory of gravity — Einstein’s general theory of relativity — predicts that the universe had an infinite density and temperature. This moment is sometimes sold as the beginning of the universe, the birth of matter, space and time. Such an interpretation, however, goes too far, because the infinite values indicate that general relativity itself breaks down.

To explain what really happened at the Big Bang, physicists must transcend relativity. We must develop a theory of quantum gravity, which would capture the fine structure of space/time to which relativity is blind.

According to one candidate for such a theory, loop quantum gravity, space is divided into atoms of volume and has a finite capacity to store matter and energy, thereby preventing true singularities from existing.

If so, time may extend before the bang. The pre-bang universe may have undergone a catastrophic implosion that reached a point of maximum density and then reversed. In short, a big crunch may have led to a big bounce and then a big bang.


It's interesting that ‘loop gravity’ recognises much more of a role for electromagnetism. The ‘loops’ of the theory are analogues of electric and magnetic fields tied into knots, and then they apply quantum principles to them.

Unlike Newton's idea of the universe winding down like a clock, the headline says: "Quantum gravity theory predicts the universe will never die". Ancient mythology also tells us that Time is infinite, and therefore not really time at all, just a series of Nows.

But it stands to reason. If there was a Big Bang or Big Bounce, what was there in the first place to go Bang or to Bounce? Something must have been there. The 'crunch' they're calling it. So how did the crunch get there? And in any case, where is ‘there’ in the absence of a universe? And if ‘there’ is somewhere ...... and so on....

It's not rocket science! :wink:
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Postby kbs2244 » Tue Nov 04, 2008 10:19 am

The expanding/contracting theory has been around a long time.
I read a pretty good SI FI story based on it back in HS.
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Re: Mythological cosmogony and the Big Bang

Postby john » Tue Nov 04, 2008 7:56 pm

Ishtar wrote:This month’s Scientific American has got an interesting article on the fact that there may not have been a Big Bang, but a Big Bounce — an implosion that triggered an explosion, all driven by what they call exotic quantum-gravitational effects.

It also says that, according to this quantum theory, the universe will never die.

If we imagine rewinding the expansion of the universe back in time, the galaxies we see all seem to converge on a single, infinitesimal point: the big bang singularity.

At this point, our current theory of gravity — Einstein’s general theory of relativity — predicts that the universe had an infinite density and temperature. This moment is sometimes sold as the beginning of the universe, the birth of matter, space and time. Such an interpretation, however, goes too far, because the infinite values indicate that general relativity itself breaks down.

To explain what really happened at the Big Bang, physicists must transcend relativity. We must develop a theory of quantum gravity, which would capture the fine structure of space/time to which relativity is blind.

According to one candidate for such a theory, loop quantum gravity, space is divided into atoms of volume and has a finite capacity to store matter and energy, thereby preventing true singularities from existing.

If so, time may extend before the bang. The pre-bang universe may have undergone a catastrophic implosion that reached a point of maximum density and then reversed. In short, a big crunch may have led to a big bounce and then a big bang.


It's interesting that ‘loop gravity’ recognises much more of a role for electromagnetism. The ‘loops’ of the theory are analogues of electric and magnetic fields tied into knots, and then they apply quantum principles to them.

Unlike Newton's idea of the universe winding down like a clock, the headline says: "Quantum gravity theory predicts the universe will never die". Ancient mythology also tells us that Time is infinite, and therefore not really time at all, just a series of Nows.

But it stands to reason. If there was a Big Bang or Big Bounce, what was there in the first place to go Bang or to Bounce? Something must have been there. The 'crunch' they're calling it. So how did the crunch get there? And in any case, where is ‘there’ in the absence of a universe? And if ‘there’ is somewhere ...... and so on....

It's not rocket science! :wink:



Ishtar -

Try plain old breathing, on

A very large scale.

Inhale, exhale.

Then try out the concept of multiple individuals

Otherwise known as universes

(my plural)

Inhaling and exhaling

Within their collectively created

Point clouds,

And then you're into some really interesting shit.

One last point, any individual universe

Has a finite lifespan

At the end of which that energy morphs to

All the others.

Not a Bang, not a Whimper,

Just everyday Transformation.


hoka hey


john
"Man is a marvellous curiosity. When he is at his very, very best he is sort of a low-grade nickel-plated angel; at his worst he is unspeakable, unimaginable; and first and last and all the time he is a sarcasm."

Mark Twain
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Postby Ishtar » Wed Nov 05, 2008 2:39 am

Yes. The Vedics called it the Breath of Brahma.
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Big Bang

Postby Cognito » Tue Nov 25, 2008 10:41 am

Any individual universe has a finite lifespan at the end of which that energy morphs to all the others. Not a Bang, not a Whimper, just everyday Transformation.

From Big Bang Theory ... to Continuous Transformation Theory

John, your theory has relevance in today's world
and makes more sense than a one-time big bang.
Continuous transformation doesn't require time,
an artificial construct agreed upon by all and
one of our most persistent illusionary concepts.
Natural selection favors the paranoid
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Re: Big Bang

Postby john » Tue Nov 25, 2008 8:59 pm

Cognito wrote:
Any individual universe has a finite lifespan at the end of which that energy morphs to all the others. Not a Bang, not a Whimper, just everyday Transformation.

From Big Bang Theory ... to Continuous Transformation Theory

John, your theory has relevance in today's world
and makes more sense than a one-time big bang.
Continuous transformation doesn't require time,
an artificial construct agreed upon by all and
one of our most persistent illusionary concepts.


Cognito -

The old Australians had it.

Dreamtime.

Continuous transformation,

No beginning,

No end.

Just

Transformation.

To me that's a pretty cool

Way to live a life,

Any life,

My life.


hoka hey


john
"Man is a marvellous curiosity. When he is at his very, very best he is sort of a low-grade nickel-plated angel; at his worst he is unspeakable, unimaginable; and first and last and all the time he is a sarcasm."

Mark Twain
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