Atheism versus theism

The study of religious or heroic legends and tales. One constant rule of mythology is that whatever happens amongst the gods or other mythical beings was in one sense or another a reflection of events on earth. Recorded myths and legends, perhaps preserved in literature or folklore, have an immediate interest to archaeology in trying to unravel the nature and meaning of ancient events and traditions.

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Postby seeker » Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:57 pm

Pantheism is the notion that God is everything (and everyone). If you aren't saying we are all part of the same god and we aren't separate gods then what is your concept?
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Postby Ishtar » Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:43 pm

Whatever I say, you'll disagree. So I suggest you work it out for yourself.
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Postby seeker » Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:53 pm

I wasn't intending to disagree, just trying to figure out what you mean.
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Postby Ishtar » Thu Sep 11, 2008 10:15 am

Seeker, have you got there yet ....?

I wasn't referring to pantheism because pantheism is a belief system for one thing, an intellectual idea. For another, it puts God first, as the creator of everything that is God. You may think the latter is just nuancing, but hear me out.

In my suggestion, one goes beyond intellectual constructs into a practical experience of a quantum reality. And then one finds that actually we are continually Generating Operating and Destroying, in a very real sense, our own material reality all the time. It's not a done deal with inert matter, but a continual living and breathing process with matter that is very much fluid and alive.

This is different to the abstract creator God of the pantheists, who puts everything in place and then goes away. It also goes beyond an intellectual idea. This is a very real experience of seeing the wave forms of material reality, which includes ourselves, and moulding them with our thoughts.

In certain ancient practises, particular words and symbols had power. This is because they knew that everything on a certain level which we might call 'quantum' is a fluid crystaline form, a matrix that is vibrating harmonically due to very precise and beautifully ordered mathematical equations. To know the mathematical equation of the vibrations would be to know the word or the symbol to change those forms and thus would give one tremendous power - the power to change one's reality, or the reality of one's tribe. That's why these magic power words are known as spells ... if you can spell the word, if you know the morphology of the word, then you have a spell that can change reality. This, I'm sure, was known to the magi (which is where the word 'magic' comes from) and it was the original meaning of "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was God ...." before the Literalists got their hands on it.

To shamans, thoughts are the things (sub-atomic particles) that impact upon the flowing and fluid wavelike and crystaline forms of matter that make up our reality. This means any thought of anyone - not just a shaman - and in fact, it is why you end up with collective consciousness states, when a group of people decide upon a certain agreed reality, as we have all done in this world. But a certain agreed reality may only be about, I think scientists say, 4 per cent of all that there is. So by accessing the quantum, we are accessing the other 96 per cent of what we're missing, that is our birthright.



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Postby seeker » Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:35 am

I don't think pantheists believe what you seem to think they believe. Pantheists think pretty much as you do, that god actually is everything and that reality is all a sort of emanation of God rather than a creation per se. Basically they just didn't have the QM terminology to throw around.
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Postby Ishtar » Thu Sep 11, 2008 1:34 pm

seeker wrote:I don't think pantheists believe what you seem to think they believe. Pantheists think pretty much as you do, that god actually is everything and that reality is all a sort of emanation of God rather than a creation per se. Basically they just didn't have the QM terminology to throw around.


See... you just had to disagree, didn't you? After innocently claiming that you just wanted to know what my idea was.

I'm used to people disagreeing with me, Seeker, and I enjoy healthy debate. But your kind of debate is unhealthy and negative. You are not really a Seeker of truth. You are Seeker of self-aggrandisement, in which point scoring is more important to you than opening yourself to a new idea.

Every idea I come up with, you try to shrink, to reduce, to carve into shreds so that it will fit into the tiny boxes in your mind. And because these ideas are so big, you can't cram them in, so you end up with a mess all over the floor.

You never or rarely unless forced, offer a positive idea of your own. You just like to tear down others' ideas until you can get them into a nice comfortable size for you to maintain your mental status quo.

Pantheism is an intellectual theory in which there is no mention of a practical experience of a co-creator human being creating, helping to influence and weave its own destiny in a conscious and live way. But that has no interest to you, because it would involve you embracing a new idea.

I'm not going to waste my time on posting anything more to you, Seeker, on any subject. Reply whatever you like to this, but I won't be reading it.



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Postby john » Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:36 pm

OK, all -

Is this thread dedicated to

The Left Brain

Or the Right Brain?


hoka hey


john
"Man is a marvellous curiosity. When he is at his very, very best he is sort of a low-grade nickel-plated angel; at his worst he is unspeakable, unimaginable; and first and last and all the time he is a sarcasm."

Mark Twain
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Postby seeker » Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:03 pm

Ishtar wrote:
seeker wrote:I don't think pantheists believe what you seem to think they believe. Pantheists think pretty much as you do, that god actually is everything and that reality is all a sort of emanation of God rather than a creation per se. Basically they just didn't have the QM terminology to throw around.


See... you just had to disagree, didn't you? After innocently claiming that you just wanted to know what my idea was.

I'm used to people disagreeing with me, Seeker, and I enjoy healthy debate. But your kind of debate is unhealthy and negative. You are not really a Seeker of truth. You are Seeker of self-aggrandisement, in which point scoring is more important to you than opening yourself to a new idea.

Every idea I come up with, you try to shrink, to reduce, to carve into shreds so that it will fit into the tiny boxes in your mind. And because these ideas are so big, you can't cram them in, so you end up with a mess all over the floor.

You never or rarely unless forced, offer a positive idea of your own. You just like to tear down others' ideas until you can get them into a nice comfortable size for you to maintain your mental status quo.

Pantheism is an intellectual theory in which there is no mention of a practical experience of a co-creator human being creating, helping to influence and weave its own destiny in a conscious and live way. But that has no interest to you, because it would involve you embracing a new idea.

I'm not going to waste my time on posting anything more to you, Seeker, on any subject. Reply whatever you like to this, but I won't be reading it.



.


Not a problem Ish, I can see that you aren't accustomed to being precise in your postings. What you call negative is just defining the meanings of the words you are using to avoid confusion. I do always seek knowledge but I make an effort not to fool myself by misunderstanding things and jumping to conclusions.
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Postby Ishtar » Fri Sep 12, 2008 12:41 am

john wrote:OK, all -

Is this thread dedicated to

The Left Brain

Or the Right Brain?


hoka hey


john


John

It's not dedicated to any part of the brain. It's open for a free flow of ideas from any part of the brain and even beyond that. :D


.
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Postby Grumpage » Fri Sep 12, 2008 6:48 am

Interesting how more heat than light can be generated in some discussions. I've just read this thread (albeit rapidly and may have missed some subtleties) and I was quite taken aback at the sudden breakdown in a recent exchange. I didn't think anything serious was amiss.

This can be quite upsetting.

Sympathies all round.
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Postby Ishtar » Fri Sep 12, 2008 6:53 am

Grumpage

I can understand that it looks like that. The perceived 'sudden breakdown' in this thread was, in fact, the culmination of a series of exchanges over a number of weeks in several threads in which the proverbial last straw was laid down in this one.




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