Horses Domesticated in 3,500 BC.

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Horses Domesticated in 3,500 BC.

Postby Minimalist » Sat Nov 28, 2009 4:10 pm

According to these researchers.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20091128/sc_livescience/researchersfindthefirsthorsewhisperers

Paleolithic hunters in Europe and Asia began exploiting horses for meat thousands of years ago when the last continental glaciers disappeared, yet the origin of horse domestication long has eluded archaeologists - for some captivating reasons.

One of the biggest reasons is that for many centuries, horse skeletons did not significantly differ in size or physical structure from those of their wild ancestors, making early taming and use of the animal more difficult to identify.

But as part of an international team of archaeologists, my colleagues and I may be getting closer to the beginnings as we look for clues in Kazakhstan.

Our team conducted extensive research at three sites belonging to the Botai culture in the northern part of the country, at locations dated to the Copper Age around 3,500 B.C.
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Re: Horses Domesticated in 3,500 BC.

Postby Rokcet Scientist » Sun Nov 29, 2009 4:23 am

I think the horse was domesticated (much) earlier, but I have no real arguments for it other than the dozens and dozens of rock/cave paintings of horses dating back to approx. 36,000 BP which demonstrate that HSS had at least a lot of interest in the species. Imo it seems unthinkable that there would have been 30,500 years between 'a warm interest' in horses and their actual domestication.
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Re: Horses Domesticated in 3,500 BC.

Postby uniface » Sun Nov 29, 2009 7:30 am

I similarly have wondered whether the Paleoindians in Maine may not have been caribou herders, as the Siberians and Finns were reindeer herders -- possibly killing wild adults at river crossings for food and capturing others there to augment their herds.

But that's un-thinkable.
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Re: Horses Domesticated in 3,500 BC.

Postby kbs2244 » Sun Nov 29, 2009 1:53 pm

Just where is Kazakhstan?
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Re: Horses Domesticated in 3,500 BC.

Postby Minimalist » Sun Nov 29, 2009 2:10 pm

Image
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

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Re: Horses Domesticated in 3,500 BC.

Postby kbs2244 » Sun Nov 29, 2009 6:08 pm

Ahhh...
I should have guessed.
It is one of the "stans."
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Re: Horses Domesticated in 3,500 BC.

Postby Digit » Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:54 am

Dad blast it! This can't go on! I think RS might be right! :roll:
I fail to see why the archies think that man may have modified the horse, would they have even been aware for many generations that the horse could be modified?

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Re: Horses Domesticated in 3,500 BC.

Postby Minimalist » Mon Nov 30, 2009 9:07 am

Ish had posted something about a researcher who claimed that based on wear marks on the teeth of horses that some level of domestication was attained c. 30,000 years ago.

Of course, he is being given the full "club" treatment. They are ignoring him.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

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Re: Horses Domesticated in 3,500 BC.

Postby Digit » Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:00 am

I have been aware of that for some years Min. Another case of 'amateurs stay out'.
The guy who first kicked off the debate was a countryman of yours, a vetenarian, so of course he knew nothing.
He examined over 40000 ancient horse teeth/jaw bones and found evidence of 'crib biting' dating from way back.
Looks as though his evidence is still being ignored or that the author is unaware of it.

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Re: Horses Domesticated in 3,500 BC.

Postby Minimalist » Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:18 am

The person she referred to, Eduoard Piette, was a French archaeologist but from the 19th century. The Club has interesting ways of dealing with 19th century scholars. Some, like Flinders Petrie, are considered to walk on water. Some, like Piette, they think should drown.

Thanks to Ish for supplying the name via email.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

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Re: Horses Domesticated in 3,500 BC.

Postby Digit » Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:22 am

Didn't know about him Min, the one I know of was definitely a Yank! :oops:
Either way the 'crib biting' needs explaining if they wish to insist on 3500 yrs.

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Re: Horses Domesticated in 3,500 BC.

Postby Minimalist » Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:34 am

I suspect that if they were inclined to pull out one of Piette's specimens and do a C14 test they would have already done so.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

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Re: Horses Domesticated in 3,500 BC.

Postby Digit » Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:27 am

The American I referred to explained that 'crib biting' was not proof positive of domestication as it could be argued that the animals were tethered for a period before being slaughtered.
I think he was covering his backside there as I can't see why anyone would bother to do that.

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Re: Horses Domesticated in 3,500 BC.

Postby Minimalist » Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:33 am

I had the same thought, actually.

Given that our ancestors were not stupid they would have surely noted that meat left unused would spoil. They may also have noted that animals were not always available when they needed them.... the lament of hunters everywhere.

Could they have tried to capture a few and keep them alive until slaughtering? The idea is not unthinkable. One simply has to get rid of the "stupid caveman" model that we have been stuck with.

Now...what are the odds that Piette found remains from exactly those horses who were trapped in Southern France no less? That's where the idea gets dicey.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin
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Posts: 15561
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:09 pm
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Re: Horses Domesticated in 3,500 BC.

Postby Digit » Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:55 am

You would also have a better idea of this as well Min, did the Native Americans selectively breed their animals?

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