Stoning Back in Fashion

The science or study of primitive societies and the nature of man.

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Stoning Back in Fashion

Postby kbs2244 » Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:06 am

I thought this might fall under the “Primitive Societies” part of the group Heading

http://www.sltrib.com/nationworld/ci_13332980

Stoning for adultery in Indonesia
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Re: Stoning Back in Fashion

Postby Minimalist » Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:41 am

Awful.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

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Re: Stoning Back in Fashion

Postby Leona Conner » Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:56 pm

I'll tell you one thing, it's getting scary out there. Of course, if the Christian Fundies over here had their way, we would not be far behind.
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Re: Stoning Back in Fashion

Postby Minimalist » Mon Sep 14, 2009 6:37 pm

I couldn't agree more, Leona. I suspect what the Fundies feel most towards the Imams is envy.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin
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Re: Stoning Back in Fashion

Postby Rokcet Scientist » Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:21 am

kbs2244 wrote:I thought this might fall under the “Primitive Societies” part of the group Heading

http://www.sltrib.com/nationworld/ci_13332980

Stoning for adultery in Indonesia


Because stoning is a prescribed punishment in the Qur'An – integral to fundamentalist Islamic law: "sharia" – it is the rule of law in every fundamentalist Islamic country or region. Like e.g. Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, Yemen, Afghanistan, the north of Pakistan, parts of Indonesia, Malaysia, and Brunei. Strong fundamentalist Islamic forces in Nigeria are making a bid to make "sharia" the rule of law in the whole of Nigeria. It already is that in the northern provinces.
Islamic fundamentalists in some European countries – guests! – now try to introduce "sharia" law as part of the host country's legal system. Within it! Under the guise that it should 'only' apply to (all) Muslims in that country (many of whom migrated there to escape "sharia" law in the first place!). It is obvious that these fundies intend that to be a precursor to making "sharia" the rule of law for the entire population, Muslim or no Muslim. How is that 'obvious', you ask? Well, radical imams teach it from the pulpit at Friday prayers. Other fundie Muslims – 'salavists' mostly – write/state it in blogs, pamphlets, interviews, and classes. That's obvious enough for me.

Hitler wrote and published Mein Kampf in the early twenties of last century. And it was all in there. His entire master plan and ideology.
How different could history have been if more thinking people had taken that seriously...

Islam, like Xtianity, is imperialist idolatry. Religion is but one of its guises. Nazism, fascism and communism are others.
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Re: Stoning Back in Fashion

Postby Minimalist » Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:55 am

Lev. 24:16

anyone who blasphemes the name of the LORD must be put to death. The entire assembly must stone him. Whether an alien or native-born, when he blasphemes the Name, he must be put to death.



Somehow....we seem to have outgrown these primitive instructions.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin
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Re: Stoning Back in Fashion

Postby Rokcet Scientist » Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:48 pm

Minimalist wrote:Lev. 24:16

anyone who blasphemes the name of the LORD must be put to death. The entire assembly must stone him. Whether an alien or native-born, when he blasphemes the Name, he must be put to death.


Somehow....we seem to have outgrown these primitive instructions.


We call that phase: enlightenment. Started in the 17th century. 16th Century if you want to count Erasmus. A phase Islam doesn't seem anywhere near entering yet.
If anything, Islam seems to move into the opposite direction: towards fundamentalism, instead of away from it. Islam was fairly relaxed in the 16th, 17th, and 18th centuries, afaik, and only started radicalising again with the emergence of the Wahabis, late 18th century. And many such zealot movements since. Today the Salavists, the Shiites, and, yes still, the Wahabis are mainstream fundie movements in Islam.
To make matters worse, splinter groups of these movements seem to mix effortlessly: Bin Laden is of course a Saudi aristocrat Wahabi. But most other Al Qaeda 'personnel' are Salavists, and Shiites. With the odd Sunni mixed in (Sadam was a Sunni).
Most 'liberal' Muslims are Sunni, Alevit, or Sufi. But they're being leaned on heavily by the fundies. Either that or they're being ostracized, branded, as unworthy fake 'Muslims' = infidel/traitors! That's worse than just infidels of course. Anyway: it is the same as a death sentence. Eventually to be followed by, of course – inch Allah! – execution! By the sword of Allah! Conveniently wielded by His henchmen: the righteous bros! A.k.a. posses and street gangs. Stick them in the fashion color of the season and, Hey! Presto! you have a legion of brownshirts, of pioneers, Republican Guards, or of inquisitors. Intimidating, terrorizing, ratting on, beating up and even killing their fellow citizens – neighbors and relatives too – if they don't toe the party line.
Dissent = free thought = death.
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Re: Stoning Back in Fashion

Postby kbs2244 » Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:07 am

Actually Leona and Min:

Stoning was never a “Christian” form of execution.
Not even in the bad days of the inquisition.

It was a Mideast tradition, picked up by the Hebrews while they were becoming the Jews in the Arabian Desert and moving into Canaan, and Islam gets the pratice from its Arabian roots.
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Re: Stoning Back in Fashion

Postby Minimalist » Wed Sep 16, 2009 3:05 pm

I agree with you, kb but it wasn't us who welded the OT to the NT and said it was one story.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin
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Re: Stoning Back in Fashion

Postby jw1815 » Thu Sep 17, 2009 7:22 pm

Did anyone notice the comment in the article about the majority of Indonesians practicing a moderate form of Islam and government officials being opposed to stoning? As someone already mentioned, we’d have nearly the same thing if the Christian fundies got their way here. Wonder how long before the Indonesian people toss this out.

Islam was fairly relaxed in the 16th, 17th, and 18th centuries


And earlier, in the 8th and 9th centuries in Spain. For that time period, they were quite tolerant of Jews and Christians under their rule – more so than Christians were toward Jews and Muslims when they were in power. Islam was enlightened in science and philosophy then, too – much more so than Christian Europe. Then they had intermittent spells of intolerant fundie Muslim rulers in Spain, from dynasties across the Rock in northern Africa.

To make matters worse, splinter groups of these movements seem to mix effortlessly: Bin Laden is of course a Saudi aristocrat Wahabi. But most other Al Qaeda 'personnel' are Salavists, and Shiites. With the odd Sunni mixed in (Sadam was a Sunni).
Most 'liberal' Muslims are Sunni, Alevit, or Sufi. But they're being leaned on heavily by the fundies. Either that or they're being ostracized, branded, as unworthy fake 'Muslims' = infidel/traitors! That's worse than just infidels of course. Anyway: it is the same as a death sentence.


Reminiscent of European Christian history, with splinter groups breaking off all over the place during the Reformation, although they tended to war with each other instead of mixing together. I don’t think we’d have reached an Age of Enlightenment if it weren’t for the destruction caused by European religious wars during the Reformation and Counter Reformation. Eventually a degree of tolerance and reason had to evolve before both sides killed off the continent’s population.

Fake Muslim accusations remind me of the Spanish Inquisition’s torture and execution of converts accused of being fake or insincere Christians. Or heretics. Or witches. A lucrative as well as “pious” business, too, since the crown got to confiscate all property of the accused.

Colonial Puritans (Congregationalists) in Massachusetts established a theocracy which even other Puritans resented enough to leave for Connecticut and Rhode Island. Quakers and Baptists were imprisoned and driven out of MA after being branded and sometimes deprived of ears. On the third offense (of practicing their own faith within the MA colony) they were executed.

There’s a fundie Congregationalist minister in my community who rants openly against Islam in local media for being barbaric, dictatorial, etc. while at the same time pushing for similar connections between Christians and politics in the US. No self-recognition of the irony, either. If I believed in reincarnation, I’d swear he was Cotton Mather returned in the flesh.
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Re: Stoning Back in Fashion

Postby Digit » Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:35 pm

The greatest hypocrisy were the auto da fe. Burned to death so that you might be purified of your heresy and able to enter heaven
So when the pain becomes unbearable brother remember that we are doing this for your benefit!

Roy
First people deny a thing, then they belittle it, then they say it was known all along! Von Humboldt
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