Archery...older than HSS?

The science or study of primitive societies and the nature of man.

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Archery...older than HSS?

Postby Minimalist » Fri Jun 19, 2009 10:26 am

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20227134.800-do-bow-and-arrow-predate-modern-humans.html?DCMP=OTC-rss&nsref=online-news

BOWS and arrows may not be the preserve of modern humans. It seems that simple stone blades make adequate arrowheads, so they might have been used in lightweight projectile weapons as far back as 100,000 years ago, when the blades first appeared.
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Re: Archery...older than HSS?

Postby Sam Salmon » Fri Jun 19, 2009 10:50 am

Atlatal not B & A.
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Re: Archery...older than HSS?

Postby Minimalist » Fri Jun 19, 2009 12:15 pm

Why not both? Different weapons for different targets. In fact, keeping a big thrusting spear around to finish off a big animal seems like a pretty solid idea, too.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

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Re: Archery...older than HSS?

Postby Rokcet Scientist » Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:34 am

older than HSS?


I think we need some definitions here.

Is HSS younger than 100,000 years BCE? If so, then when (approximately) did he rear his ugly head first in your opinion, Min?
Afaik HSS' predecessor – HS – is supposed to have risen around 200,000 years BCE. The question is: from what hominid did HS evolve? From Homo Erectus? From Homo Heidelbergensis? Or was the latter only HN's ancestor?
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Re: Archery...older than HSS?

Postby Minimalist » Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:23 am

They don't say where these points were found but Levallois is generally considered to be HNS. If HNS was using them 100,000 years ago then, according to the OOA theory, they were doing so without influence from HSS because we didn't arrive on the scene until c 40,000 BC.

Of course, if OOA turns out to be full of shit then all bets are off, aren't they?
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

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Re: Archery...older than HSS?

Postby Rokcet Scientist » Wed Jun 24, 2009 10:14 am

Minimalist wrote:They don't say where these points were found but Levallois is generally considered to be HNS. If HNS was using them 100,000 years ago then, according to the OOA theory, they were doing so without influence from HSS because we didn't arrive on the scene until c 40,000 BC.


Huh? Afaik genetic tracing has concluded that HS(S?) left Africa in 2 waves. One a little over 100,000 BCE and the other a little over 70,000 BCE.

What does that "40,000 BC" allude to, Min? Is that when HSS and HN are supposed to have met in Europe?
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Re: Archery...older than HSS?

Postby Minimalist » Wed Jun 24, 2009 10:19 am

Supposedly when HSS came into contact with HNS.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

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Re: Archery...older than HSS?

Postby Digit » Thu Jun 25, 2009 1:09 pm

I made the point on the 'other' forum that arrows, and probably spears as well, could well pre date flint points.
Fire hardened arrows as a MK One seems logical. Also bone points would have been much simpler to attach to a wooden shaft than stone ones.
I can't believe that archery achieved it's final development over night.

Roy.
First people deny a thing, then they belittle it, then they say it was known all along! Von Humboldt
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Re: Archery...older than HSS?

Postby Minimalist » Thu Jun 25, 2009 2:34 pm

Indeed, Roy.

You know, The Club holds to the line that it wasn't until HSS that humans could think of much of anything. But if they had devised boats that could sail the Pacific is it really rocket science to devise a bow? Or an atlatl. Is it even that difficult to realize that these weapons serve better for different targets?

Maybe that's why they seek to hold the line on the "stupid cave man" model? Because once they acknowledge the tech skills of HE they let the genie out of the bottle.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

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Re: Archery...older than HSS?

Postby Digit » Thu Jun 25, 2009 2:46 pm

What always pisses me off Min is their apparent inability to see that many of their statements make them look far more stupid than any cave dweller.

Roy.
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Re: Archery...older than HSS?

Postby Minimalist » Thu Jun 25, 2009 3:33 pm

Image
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

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