War, Female Slavery - 5,000 BC

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War, Female Slavery - 5,000 BC

Postby Beagle » Tue Jun 03, 2008 7:41 am

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/wear/7432306.stm

A study of 7,000-year-old skeletons, led by Durham University scientists, found that one of the burial groups consisted only of men and children.

This indicated that the women were spared and their capture could have been the motive for the attack.

The findings, from a burial pit in Talheim, Germany, are published in the journal Antiquity.

The 34 skeletons were discovered in the 1980s, but new studies of different types (isotopes) of atoms in their teeth show that they came from three groups - locals, cattle-herders and a "family" of a man, woman and two children.

All the skeletons bore marks to the left side of the skull showing that they were hit in the head with an axe, indicating they were executed while bound.



In this instance, the killings took place ca 5,000 BC in Germany. If this practice were widespread, it might change our viewpoint about the migration patterns regarding mtDNA.

It also seems to me that older women must have had value as slaves, since there surely would have been a few of them.
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Postby Minimalist » Tue Jun 03, 2008 9:27 am

"Although resources and population were undoubtedly factors in central Europe around that time, women appear to be the immediate reason for the attack.




How does he know that the main reason for the attack wasn't stealing the cattle and the women were just an added bonus?

To paraphrase Caesar: War gives the victor the right to impose any conditions he wishes on the conquered.
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Postby rich » Tue Jun 03, 2008 9:48 am

Any possible chance that the tribe they were from were a women warrior tribe that might have actually died in combat instead?
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Postby Minimalist » Tue Jun 03, 2008 10:01 am

I think I saw that movie.


Image
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

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Postby rich » Tue Jun 03, 2008 10:13 am

Except there were at least a few cases of women warrior based cultures in the past. But the idea of keeping the women and getting rid of the rest probably was more inline with what they were doing. Just the possibility exists still for the idea of a women warrior tribe.
i'm not lookin' for who or what made the earth - just who got me dizzy by makin it spin
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Postby kbs2244 » Tue Jun 03, 2008 2:55 pm

I don’t recall any slave taking society that restricted itself by sex.
A strong male was just as valuable as a good looking female.
That is true even today in the slave markets of interior Africa.
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Postby dannan14 » Tue Jun 03, 2008 4:30 pm

Raiding for mates could have been a semi-accepted practice. Maybe most of the women taken had no desire to return to the camp of their birth. In a small population it is probably common for there to be a male to female ratio that is far from 1:1, but as populations grew closer together, raiding that may have started off as ritualistic rather than militaristic could have become much more violent.
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Postby Minimalist » Tue Jun 03, 2008 4:55 pm

Titus Livius - the Early History of Rome.

http://www.historywiz.com/romulus.htm

Livy tells another story about Romulus in the story of "The Rape of the Sabine Women." It seems that Romulus needed wives for the men who had joined his city.

The Roman state had become strong enough to hold its own in war with all the peoples along its borders, but a shortage of women meant that its greatness was fated to last for a single generation, since there was no prospect of offspring at home nor any prospect of marriage with their neighbors. Then, in accordance with the decision of the senate, Romulus sent messengers to the neighboring peoples to ask for alliance and the right of marriage for the new people. . . But nowhere were the emissaries given a fair hearing. Some scorned, others feared the great power growing in their midst, both for themselves and for their descendants. . . Romulus, to gain time till he found the right occasion, hid his concern and prepared to celebrate the Consualia, the solemn games in honor of equestrian Neptune. He then ordered that the spectacle be announced to the neighboring peoples. He gave the event great publicity by the most lavish means possible in those days. Many people came, some simply out of curiosity to see the new city, and especially the nearest neighbor, from Caenina, Crustuminum and Antemnae; the entire Sabine population came, wives and children included. Received with hospitality in the houses, after having seen the position of the city, its walls, and the large number of buildings, they marveled that Rome had grown so fast. When it was time for the show, and everybody was concentrating on this, a prearranged signal was given and all the Roman youths began to grab the women. Many just snatched the nearest woman to hand, but the most beautiful had already been reserved for the senators and these were escorted to the senators' houses by plebeians who had been given this assignment.

The Romans drove off the men, and took the women for their wives. The Sabine men did not give in so easily however. There was war between the Romans and the Sabines led by their king Titus Tatius. It was the women who finally brought peace to Rome. They persuaded their fathers not to fight their new husbands and the Romans accepted Titus Tatius as joint ruler with Romulus.

Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

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Postby Ishtar » Tue Jun 03, 2008 10:24 pm

This is exalted behaviour in the Old Testament:

Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword. Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished." (Isaiah 13:15-16)
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Postby Minimalist » Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:09 pm

Actually, the Romans were far more civilized.

Roman expansion in Italy involved the absorbing of defeated enemies and inclusing them into Roman political life. No mass slaughters for the Romans....unlike the poor Canaanites who get the shaft from ole Yahweh.


Judging by the way Rome grew it would seem that they definitely chose the right course.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

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Postby Ishtar » Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:19 pm

Minimalist wrote:
no mass slaughters for the Romans....unlike the poor Canaanites who get the shaft from ole Yahweh.

Judging by the way Rome grew it would seem that they definitely chose the right course.


And judging from what happened to the Jews, they definitely chose the wrong course:

"Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD. Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves." (Numbers 31:16-18)
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Postby Digit » Wed Jun 04, 2008 2:41 am

Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword. Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished." (Isaiah


Sounds like the recent party on the London Underground!
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Postby kbs2244 » Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:57 am

You can do better than that Ish!
The quote from Isaiah is a prophesy of what would happen to one pagan nation at the hands of another pagan nation.
In no way was it exulted behavior.
It was just a description of what was to come.
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Postby Ishtar » Wed Jun 04, 2008 12:00 pm

You're right, KB. I apologise. It wasn't an exultation....

But I think you'll agree that I was bang on the button with second one?
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Postby Minimalist » Wed Jun 04, 2008 12:30 pm

kbs2244 wrote:You can do better than that Ish!
The quote from Isaiah is a prophesy of what would happen to one pagan nation at the hands of another pagan nation.
In no way was it exulted behavior.
It was just a description of what was to come.



Except Babylon was taken by trickery by Cyrus, was not sacked and burned and continued as a city into the Islamic era, c 650 AD when it was abandoned.

Famously, Alexander the Great died there well after taking the city from the Persians.

So, Isaiah got it wrong regardless.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

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