"Clash of the Cavemen"

The science or study of primitive societies and the nature of man.

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"Clash of the Cavemen"

Postby Minimalist » Mon May 26, 2008 10:18 pm

In about 45 minutes the History Channel will be broadcasting the above. I caught the end of it earlier tonight and decided to record it.

If anyone wants to see it, sing out and I'll transmit it to you by e-mail. From what I saw they do go into the whole question of HNS/HSS interbreeding.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin
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Postby Beagle » Tue May 27, 2008 7:44 am

Thanks Min, but I've seen it twice now. It was on about six months ago and I caught yesterday evening. I have the usual problems with the theory.
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Postby Minimalist » Tue May 27, 2008 8:10 am

They do seem to mention every possible theory, don't they? But that's fair since there is no real evidence favoring one over another....OOA claims notwithstanding.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin
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Postby Minimalist » Tue May 27, 2008 8:12 am

BTW, did you catch the one that was on with it last night...the Journey to 10,000 BC?

Stanford makes some compelling pro-boat arguments in that one.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin
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Postby Beagle » Tue May 27, 2008 8:22 am

Yes I watched it again last night. Also a rerun, I thought it covered the time period very well. It even had a shot of the Topper site. I would like to get a picture of the rock art of deep water fish in a Solutrean cave. I know we talked about them once, but a pic is worth a thousand words, as RS says.
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Postby Minimalist » Tue May 27, 2008 8:26 am

I thought the comparison of the tools was the most compelling argument.

The solutrean and clovis points were almost identical while the "siberian" point was a microblade insert and not even close to the other two.

They still try to mis-represent Stanford's theory as a "migration" instead of just scattered bands of hunters moving and hunting along the ice pack and ending up here. Good point made about the Georges Banks being exposed as islands at the LGM. Would have been a nice stopping point on the trip!
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin
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Postby Beagle » Tue May 27, 2008 8:43 am

Good point made about the Georges Banks being exposed as islands at the LGM.


Sure was. When I look at Google Earth I'm impressed by how much more land mass was exposed on both sides of the Atlantic.

I looked again for a pic of the pelagic fish, to no avail. But when Stanford was describing the rock art of seals and fish, they showed the images on TV. I'll have to dedicate some time and find 'em.
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Postby Minimalist » Tue May 27, 2008 9:08 am

I did a quick search and while there are a lot of references to Solutrean sea creature drawings coming up with pictures has been a lot tougher. Everyone seems to prefer the points!

However

http://www.archaeology.org/0805/abstracts/60years.html

In a 1993 ARCHAEOLOGY article, French prehistorians Jean Clottes and Jean Courtin described the cave's Solutrean period (around 19,000 years ago) paintings of bison, horses, and ibexes, all known in Paleolithic art, and others unknown to specialists, such as penguin-like sea birds called auks, and even some black figures that might be jellyfish or squid.



if there is a university library nearby, you might be able to get hold of this 1993 edition of ARCHAEOLOGY magazine.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin
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Location: Arizona

Postby Beagle » Tue May 27, 2008 9:17 am

Thanks for the link. Most of that cave art is , at this time, under water now.
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Re: "Clash of the Cavemen"

Postby Rokcet Scientist » Tue May 27, 2008 10:15 am

Minimalist wrote:In about 45 minutes the History Channel will be broadcasting the above. I caught the end of it earlier tonight and decided to record it.

If anyone wants to see it, sing out and I'll transmit it to you by e-mail. From what I saw they do go into the whole question of HNS/HSS interbreeding.


Yeah, Min, I'd appreciate a link to a stream or download. Thanks in advance.
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Postby dannan14 » Tue May 27, 2008 10:49 am

Yeah i think this one sounds fun too. Do you still have my email?
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Postby Minimalist » Tue May 27, 2008 12:33 pm

Yeah, dannan. You're in my Archaeologica list for notification whenever the board craps out.

No prob, Beags. I'll work on it today.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin
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Posts: 15439
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:09 pm
Location: Arizona

Postby Digit » Tue May 27, 2008 12:51 pm

The solutrean and clovis points were almost identical while the "siberian" point was a microblade insert and not even close to the other two.


An observation I have made earlier that seems to be ignored by the club, along with a number of 'Clovis' types found on the 'wrong' side of the Bering Straight.
Interestingly enough is the fact that at the time the Spaniards landed in south America the microlith seems to have been the norm.
Perhaps WA can add to that? Wake up Lawrence! You're wanted!
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Postby Minimalist » Tue May 27, 2008 3:50 pm

OK. It's all done....just under 700 megs. I'll be sending out.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin
Minimalist
 
Posts: 15439
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:09 pm
Location: Arizona

Postby Minimalist » Wed May 28, 2008 8:06 am

Having previously argued for the "disease-brought-by-Cro-Magnon" idea for the demise of the Neanderthal, I was quite amused to see the idea figuring so prominently into the story.

Of course, it would have been nice if they'd had some evidence.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin
Minimalist
 
Posts: 15439
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:09 pm
Location: Arizona

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