Hominin in Spain 1.2 million years BP

The science or study of primitive societies and the nature of man.

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Postby Beagle » Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:41 pm

Why do you assume it is either this route or that one? I bet it was all of them!


I'm not assuming anything. You could well be right. :wink:
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Postby Minimalist » Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:02 pm

Just because sea level was 400 feet lower at the LGM 17,000 years ago does not mean it was 400 feet lower 1.2 million years ago. There were many fluctuations of the ice.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

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Postby rich » Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:07 pm

Ah - a beautiful picture of a dancing goddess with a serpent comin out of her hair!
i'm not lookin' for who or what made the earth - just who got me dizzy by makin it spin
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Postby rich » Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:12 pm

'course on the other hand it could be Atlas in his classic pose of holding up the world.
i'm not lookin' for who or what made the earth - just who got me dizzy by makin it spin
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Postby Rokcet Scientist » Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:37 am

Minimalist wrote:Just because sea level was 400 feet lower at the LGM 17,000 years ago does not mean it was 400 feet lower 1.2 million years ago. There were many fluctuations of the ice.


Indeed, sea levels were 400 feet lower a number of times in the last couple million years. It went up and down like a yo-yo. So the continental shelf was available for habitat and migration a number of times too.
Kind of like the parting of the Red Sea . . .
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Postby Rokcet Scientist » Thu Mar 27, 2008 7:17 am

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Postby Minimalist » Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:27 am

Kind of like the parting of the Red Sea . . .



Except the ice ages actually happened.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

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Postby Beagle » Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:30 am

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080326/sc_nm/humans_fossil_spain_dc_1

The bones are similar to fossils thought to be 800,000 years old found at the same site in 1994, suggesting a continuous human presence in Western Europe.

Up to now archaeologists had found evidence of human activity in Spain, France and Italy around 1 million years ago but no human remains, only animal bones and stone tools.



Flakes of flint embedded in animal bones, suggesting the use of a crude knife, were amongst the finds discovered at the site last June


Hopefully we'll start getting some pics of the stone tools soon. We're beginning to have a new picture of man's European occupation. 8)
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Postby Minimalist » Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:46 am

Flakes of flint embedded in animal bones



If memory serves, that is the type of "tool" found in Siberia which goes so far as to show that there were not "clovis" antecedents in Siberia.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin
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Postby Beagle » Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:05 am

My memory tells me the same thing. Pretty nifty tool for 1.2 million yra.
So....like I said, bring on the pics.

I've been surfing around, looking for info on the climate of western Europe at that time. Now that we know there were humans there for at least 400,000 yrs.,the hunting was probably good. I'll keep looking.
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Postby Minimalist » Thu Mar 27, 2008 11:20 am

Yeah. What constitutes a tool?

Any old rock is just a rock until someone picks it up and uses it to smash something. Then it becomes a tool.

Deliberately shaping a rock also makes it a tool. But carving a slot in a bone and inserting flint flakes definitely demonstrates intent.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

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Postby Beagle » Thu Mar 27, 2008 11:50 am

carving a slot in a bone and inserting flint flakes definitely demonstrates intent.


Not only intent, but compared to myself it demonstrates a lot of skill. I wouldn't know how to go about it.

Regarding the climate for our unlabeled man, all I'm finding for sure is that this time period is about 400,000 yrs. before the first major pleistocene glaciation in Europe. So - probably a pretty decent climate.
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Glaciation

Postby Cognito » Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:11 pm

Regarding the climate for our unlabeled man, all I'm finding for sure is that this time period is about 400,000 yrs. before the first major pleistocene glaciation in Europe. So - probably a pretty decent climate.

Sorry, Beags -- No such thing. Glaciation began about 2.5 million years ago with the approximate 100,000 year cycle in place. :shock:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleistocene

The most likely culprit for the onset of this epoch is the joining of North and South America at the isthmus (I can never pronounce that properly) sometime after 3 million years ago. Prior to that time water ran from the Pacific Ocean directly into the Atlantic Ocean where the future isthmus was to be located. Concurrently, currents swept part of the North Atlantic westward and then south through the Bering Sea into the Pacific Ocean.
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Postby Digit » Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:25 pm

(I can never pronounce that properly)


It's easier with false teeth they tell me! :lol:
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Re: Glaciation

Postby Beagle » Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:39 pm

Cognito wrote:
Regarding the climate for our unlabeled man, all I'm finding for sure is that this time period is about 400,000 yrs. before the first major pleistocene glaciation in Europe. So - probably a pretty decent climate.

Sorry, Beags -- No such thing. Glaciation began about 2.5 million years ago with the approximate 100,000 year cycle in place. :shock:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleistocene

The most likely culprit for the onset of this epoch is the joining of North and South America at the isthmus (I can never pronounce that properly) sometime after 3 million years ago. Prior to that time water ran from the Pacific Ocean directly into the Atlantic Ocean where the future isthmus was to be located. Concurrently, currents swept part of the North Atlantic westward and then south through the Bering Sea into the Pacific Ocean.


Maybe I could have explained that better, I'm not sure Cogs. Anyway, as you say, the Ice Age began about 2.5 Mya when the land bridge between the Americas blocked the tropical flow between the two oceans.

However, when I said "the first major pleistocene glaciation in Europe" I was referring to glacial advance into Europe like we had during the LGM.
It took a while for the earth to get that cool.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Atmospheric_CO2_with_glaciers_cycles.gif

This chart puts the first one at 650,000 but I also saw reference earlier today of a terribly cold period at 800,000ya. So, although in a cooling period, 1.2 Mya would have been on average warmer than the remaining Pleistocene.
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