Contemporary Great Pyramid Document

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Re: Contemporary Great Pyramid Document

Postby Diviacus » Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:00 pm

Thanks for the link. Simple, but well said.
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Re: Contemporary Great Pyramid Document

Postby circumspice » Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:15 am

"Damn with faint praise, assent with civil leer, and, without sneering, teach the rest to sneer." ~ Alexander Pope
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Re: Contemporary Great Pyramid Document

Postby Skiessa » Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:55 am

circumspice wrote:More from the same blog:


https://ancientneareast.org/category/co ... he-fringe/


"This statement itself is wrong. By this point in time C14 dating has become a highly accurate and reliable method for dating most anything organic up to about 50,000 years old." **accurate to 50,000 old material. the spread of the organic matter grows exponentially over x amount of time, and there is absolutely no way to define this rate of spread, or bring back the matter that is lost from the excavated area. especially when talking about humans who tend to dispose one's leftovers and anything which will rot or attract predators the carbon dating is self-evidently inaccurate.

"Many fringe arguments are very misleading, either on deliberate grounds or simply due to a lack of familiarity with the known facts of pharaonic Egypt. For instance, you will often see a fringe argument stating in wonder how the Great Pyramid seemed to have popped up out of nowhere, with no observable cultural or architectural antecedents;" this argument i actually agree with, at least to itself - I don't agree with it that this would link the great pyramid to the ancient egypt in any way. for any evidence that connects a pyramid to the ancient egypt either the pyramid is a mudcake or the evidence is nonexistent. what it looks like to me is that the egyptian civilization grew in the shadow of the pre-existing geometrically perfect pyramids and attempted to mimic their structure after reaching certain civilizational level.

"The Egyptians called the Great Pyramid Akhet Khufu, the “Horizon of Khufu.”" I seriously hope that no-one thinks that this even suggests that the great pyramid was built by Khufu. He was a worshiped leader - it's no wonder that the greatest wonder near by was named after a great king. just as if they've had lived little bit southern the Kilimanjaro would have been called Akhet Khufu.

"A frequent argument put forth by fringe adherents is that no body was found in the Great Pyramid, so it cannot have been a tomb." Put it this way and the argument really becomes pointless. The real argument goes, that because no mummy, or text, or anything that would suggest the pyramid to have been a tomb have ever been found, the assumption that the pyramid was built to be a tomb is a wild guess, rather than a scientific opinion.

"This is the last evidentiary point I wish to make. I usually shy away from arguments employing the Pyramid Texts in relation to the Great Pyramid because no know example of the Texts exists from the time of Khufu. The earliest Pyramid Texts we have are those inscribed inside the pyramid of King Unis (2385-2355 BCE), who reigned at the end of Dynasty 5. This was roughly 150 years after the time of Khufu." doesn't this debunk the whole mainstream presumption in itself? because nothing that would justify the mainstream presumption has ever been found, the mainstream view is just a (very) wild guess rather than a scientific opinion. (see my earlier comment on the intial topic of the papyri)

Since we are on the amateur archaeology side, just for a starter, check this video from Graham Hancock, another unauthorized, uneducated (by mainstream academy) fellow on the great pyramid. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cm4eUPNo3_8

And by the way somehow I didn't be too surprised when I didn't see you refer to anything I've said. It's like speaking to magic 8-ball really. Maybe you are just trolling, but still you resemble the mainstream view so well that many who stumble down here actually think the way you do. Maybe my time isn't totally wasted after all.
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Re: Contemporary Great Pyramid Document

Postby Tiompan » Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:43 am

Skiessa wrote:
what it looks like to me is that the egyptian civilization grew in the shadow of the pre-existing geometrically perfect pyramids


What about the error , that you were all confused about ? It was the value of that error that had you making claims for the magic 72 .
If the pyramids were geometrically perfect why did you find the error so important as to possibly encode a value for axial precession ? i.e. " so what really shook me is that when i counted of how many times the 3 60th of a degree would fit in a full circle, i got 7200. 72 - the magical number " . What about all the other" geometrically perfect " alignments that are also in error should we look for more info in their errors too ?
We would have a whole slew of other numbers that we could miscalculate ,as you did with the 72 , and associate them with a similar number from astronomy , numerology , physics , you name it it can be shoehorned .

Could you please tell us where you got the magic 72 from ? It's a cracker , the history of the fringe and the sources of the fantasies are fascinating .
The fact that they are believed without considering checking the basics says a lot too .
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Re: Contemporary Great Pyramid Document

Postby Skiessa » Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:54 am

Tiompan wrote:
Skiessa wrote:
what it looks like to me is that the egyptian civilization grew in the shadow of the pre-existing geometrically perfect pyramids


What about the error , that you were all confused about ? It was the value of that error that had you making claims for the magic 72 .
If the pyramids were geometrically perfect why did you find the error so important as to possibly encode a value for axial precession ? i.e. " so what really shook me is that when i counted of how many times the 3 60th of a degree would fit in a full circle, i got 7200. 72 - the magical number " . What about all the other" geometrically perfect " alignments that are also in error should we look for more info in their errors too ?
We would have a whole slew of other numbers that we could miscalculate ,as you did with the 72 , and associate them with a similar number from astronomy , numerology , physics , you name it it can be shoehorned .

Could you please tell us where you got the magic 72 from ? It's a cracker , the history of the fringe and the sources of the fantasies are fascinating .
The fact that they are believed without considering checking the basics says a lot too .


here's some attention for you Tiompan *pats gently*
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Re: Contemporary Great Pyramid Document

Postby Tiompan » Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:41 am

Lol .
Great "response " . You seem to have a problem dealing with facts , and questions .

Is it so embarrassing to say where you got the "idea " from , that you can't repeat the name ? Maybe it's magic name ?
If you made it up then fair fair enough just another daft idea , you attempted to suggest so in " " so what really shook me is that when i counted of how many times" but you don't seem to know very much ,certainly nothing about astronomy or geometry ,archaeology etc , it all seems to be second hand untested "ideas" from the fringe . I don't believe that you made it up ,daft and wrong as it is .
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Re: Contemporary Great Pyramid Document

Postby Skiessa » Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:34 pm

go away, autistic troll. for anyone interested in the original discussion read viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3906&start=60 read starting from the few top comments of the last page.
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Re: Contemporary Great Pyramid Document

Postby Tiompan » Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:08 am

Awkward facts and questions highlighting errors in comments made by you don't go away . Odd how Fringe nuts always have a problem with that .
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Re: Contemporary Great Pyramid Document

Postby circumspice » Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:37 am

Shall we begin keeping a running total? There is certainly ample material upon which we can start scoring... :)


‘The Harte Ultimate Dumb’ chart (THUD) Index for AE Cranks .005

A simple method for rating potentially “revolutionary contributions” to Egyptology:

Start at 0

5 points for every statement that is widely agreed on to be false without showing evidence that it is indeed false.

5 points for every statement that is clearly made up.

5 points for repeating that slaves built the pyramids.

5 points for every statement that is logically inconsistent.

5 points where the term logic or reasoning is used to support something that isn’t logical or reasonable.

5 points for each such statement that is adhered to despite given careful correction.

5 points for every use of annoying language, such as “is it possible that…”.

5 points for using a thought experiment that contradicts the results of a widely accepted real experiment: such as saying the C-14 dates done in 1995 are faked.

5 points for each word in all capital letters (except for those with defective keyboards).

5 points for each mention of “Petrie”, “Lehner” or “Hawass” when it has no bearing on the point, 1 point for any of the lesser giants of Egyptology.

5 points for bringing up long-disproved ideas such as: The pyramids are situated at the center of the world, they were granaries, they could be seen in Jerusalem, or that they show supernatural precision or accuracy in construction or alignment.

5 points for demonstrating the phenomenon of pareidolia and not understanding this.

5 points for claiming you have done ‘years of research’.

5 points for mentioning that a documentary is to come in the future explaining everything but for now just “accept what I say.”

5 points for using as a source; Sitchin, Von Daniken, Osmanagic, Velikovsky, Cayce, Berlitz, Dunn, Donnelly, Icke, Blavatsky, Plongeon, Churchward, Posnansky, Fell, Taylor, Joseph, Wilson, Cremo, Childress, Collins, Coppens, Wyatt, Russell, Rutherford, et cetera.

5 points for using as a source those who are still alive and might well come up with something in future but are currently bad sources (e.g., Bauval, Hancock)

10 points for using speculation or your opinion and mistaking them for facts.

10 points for saying Egyptology is not a science.

10 points for not understanding consilience.

10 points for mentioning Mu or Atlantis and 50 for Lemuria.

10 points for each claim that Egyptology is fundamentally misguided or wrong (without good evidence).

10 points for pointing out that you have gone to school, as if this were evidence of sanity.

10 points for deriding the study of any aspect of Egyptology as unimportant and not limited to its culture, religion, geographical location.

10 points for beginning the description of your theory by saying how long you have been working on it. (10 more for emphasizing that you worked on your own.)

10 points for claiming scientists have helped and worked with you but not saying who they are or pointing out their contributions or credentials.

10 points for mailing/emailing your theory to someone you don’t know personally and asking them not to tell anyone else about it, for fear that your ideas will be stolen.

10 points for advising that your idea is released to the world and you don’t want money for it (as if anyone would pay you).

10 points for offering prize money to anyone who proves and/or finds any flaws in your theory while you are the one who’s going to appraise the entries yourself.

10 points for each new term you invent and use without properly defining it.

10 points for each statement along the lines of “I’m not good at math, but my theory is conceptually right, so all I need is for someone to express it in terms of equations” that support my idea.

10 points for arguing that a current well-established theory is “only a theory”, as if this were somehow a point against it.

10 points for arguing that while a current well-established theory is well supported by the evidence, it doesn’t explain “why” they occur, or fails to provide a “mechanism” or is deemed illogical or unreasonable by the theorist.

10 points for claiming that your work is on the cutting edge of a “paradigm shift”.

10 points for refusal to go to conference to promote your idea either by presenting or showing a presentation/data table.

10 points for stating you have degrees that supports your contention that you are well educated on the subject but refusing to provide supporting information.

10 points for trying to impose a modern cultural model on the ancient Egyptians (we wouldn’t do that so they wouldn’t, or we would do this so they would)

10 points for ‘borrowing’ an earlier idea and representing as your own or as new material.

10 points for not understanding that Hawass is not the head of world-wide Egyptology.

10 points for not understanding that NOT only modern Egyptians can be Egyptologists.

10 points for not understanding that not all Egyptian Egyptologist are Muslims and that their religion discredits them from speaking about the ancient Egyptians.

10 points for implying that Atlantis or a ‘lost civilization’ is the source for Egyptian civilization.

10 points if the claimant gives themselves the epithet of ‘Indiana Jones’.

15 points for implying that the pyramids have magical influences (without good evidence).

15 points for making engineering claims without providing drawing, mathematics, or experts to support your contention that what you say is possible.

15 points for saying that your theory or idea is more efficient for doing ‘x’ without showing it actually is and for believing the ancient Egyptians only did things efficiently.

15 points for declining to gain support of scientists outside of Egyptology for technical issues for no definable reason.

15 points for bringing up Troy.

20 points if your theory supports any failed 19th century nationalistic or racial idea, that the Egyptian civilian or pyramid came from the Jews, Aryans, Illuminati or other groups.

20 points for emailing Egyptologists complaining about them but not recognizing the theorist’s obvious great knowledge.

20 points for suggesting that you deserve a Nobel Prize when it has been explained to you that (accursed) Nobel left no money for archaeology or Egyptological prizes.

20 points for every use of science fiction works, forgeries, or myths as if they were fact.

20 points for constantly forgetting your idea is just an idea and not proven or accepted by consensus.

20 points for pretending that consensus support for your idea is not important.

20 points for defending yourself by bringing up (real or imagined) ridicule accorded to your past theories.

20 points for naming something after yourself.

20 points for talking about how great your theory is, but never actually explaining it.

20 points for each use of the phrase “debunked” used the wrong way.

20 points for each use of the phrase “self-appointed defender of orthodoxy” when your ideas are not orthodox.

20 points for complaining that Egyptology is not paying attention to your idea when you have never published it.

20 points for suggesting Egyptology hates you for your idea and that anyone who disagrees is a paid shill of said Egyptology or Government.

20 points for posting links to evidence or papers that don’t actually support your contention.

20 points for suggesting that a general property is a unique feature and therefore evidence for your idea (such as noting that water, sand or limestone rock is present in Egypt).

20 points for bringing up a Biblical myth and treating it as real (without providing evidence that it is).

20 points for making a claim in a press release.

20 points for using the term ‘decode’ (this increases exponentially each time it is used).

25 points for using personal incredulity as evidence or using of buzz phrases like “Egyptology or science can’t explain that!” or “How could primitive man have done this?” Or a misapplied appeal to “common sense.”

25 points for making a claim in a You Tube video with no written support.

25 points for treating the idea that the ancient Egyptians used ‘advanced technology’ (new age) to include levitation, telekinesis, magic, pyramid power (without providing great supporting evidence).

25 points for using strawmen arguments that no Egyptologist has ever said or implied.

25 points for using arguments from Egyptologists that were later dropped as still being valid.

25 points for complaining that Egyptology is based on assumption and demanding these be dropped so the writer’s weaker assumptions are accepted.

25 points for insisting that only evidence from a very narrow dating range near the object or construction in question can be deem associated with said place.

30 points for suggesting that a famous Egyptologist secretly disbelieved in your theory but who has never mentioned it.

30 points for suggesting that Egyptology is groping its way towards the ideas you now advocate but they refuse to acknowledge your great wisdom.

30 points for claiming that your theories were developed by an extraterrestrial civilization (without REALLY good evidence).

30 points for allusions to a delay in your work while you spent time in an asylum, or references to the psychiatrist who tried to talk you out of your theory.

30 points for pretending that if you post something on an obscure website or non-obscure website that that means all of Egyptology then know about it.

30 points for pretending that if Egyptologists (or other scientists or professionals) don’t publish refutations of your work their silence means they accept it.

35 points for taking real scientists work, especially images and applying conclusions to their work that they never made.

35 points for insisting that your theory operates in a special world and that while you have no degrees (or the right ones) only those with the correct degrees may criticize it.

35 points for stating that knowing the language of ancient Egypt is not necessary when translating what the hieroglyphs mean.

35 points for believing that the pyramids are the true focus of Egyptology and nothing else in their culture actually matters.

35 points for stating that some aspect of Egyptology has been shown to be wrong but declining to show the evidence for such a position.

35 points for bringing up the television show ‘Ancient Aliens’ and considering it a source; additionally citing dubious online sites as sources that themselves don’t source their claims, usually recycled from pseudo-participants higher up on the food chain.

35 points for suggesting that the ancient Egyptian technology to build the pyramids appeared out of nowhere.

40 points for comparing those who argue against your ideas to Nazis.

40 points for refusal to accept the scientific method or peer-review as a valid system of research.

40 points for claiming that the Egyptology is engaged in a “conspiracy” to prevent your work from gaining its well-deserved fame.

40 points for comparing yourself to Galileo, suggesting that a modern-day Inquisition is hard at work on your case.

40 points for suggesting or claiming that Egyptologists are plotting against you.

40 points for suggesting or claiming that Egyptologists are generally evil for not listening to you or worse yet pointing out your many errors.

40 points for claiming that when your theory is finally appreciated, present-day Egyptology will be seen for the sham it truly is. (30 more points for fantasizing about show trials in which scientists who mocked your theories will be forced to recant.)

40 points for suggesting that events tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, or millions of years ago somehow directly affect the Egyptians (without excellent evidence).

45 points for stating that the hieroglyph associated with an image of Egyptian art need not be read to ascertain what the image is about.

45 points for changing the meaning of ancient Egyptian words while not understanding the language.

45 points creating ‘evidence’ by using photo-shop or other dishonest methods.

50 points for suggesting you are an ancient Egyptian.

50 points for claiming supernatural or paranormal support or collaborators.

50 points for claiming extra-terrestrial support or collaborators.

50 points for making un-evidenced statements that either don’t grasp or heavily exaggerate the timeline of other aspects of a given cultural group so as to distort their known contribution to world civilization.

50 points for changing the meaning of ancient Egyptian words while understanding the language but doing so with no support from others who can read the language.

50 points for claiming you have a revolutionary theory but giving no concrete testable predictions.

75 points for suggesting or pretending that your dismissal of evidence causes such evidence to disappear from the physical world.

75 points that the evidence to support your theory will be found in the future – but for the present your ideas or theory should be accepted anyway.

100 points if your theory consists of trash talk against science and Egyptology while concentrating on what you perceived as their grievous errors and bias. In your mind they are so evil and inept that your own weak and un-evidenced idea must be accepted based solely on the presumed weaknesses of the orthodox position.
Last edited by circumspice on Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Damn with faint praise, assent with civil leer, and, without sneering, teach the rest to sneer." ~ Alexander Pope
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Re: Contemporary Great Pyramid Document

Postby Skiessa » Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:20 am

the best you can do is to flood the whole page with your comment in hope that anyone reading this forum will not bother to read the previous discussion, and see how the only way you can hold on to your archaeological view is to ignore everything that is said to you. the really sad thing here isn't even you, but the whole mainstream archaeology which is relied on this very same type rhetorics - ascending above the debate relying on authority.

I rest my case here, hopefully the world keeps going on the same path where even the most dogmatic perceptions of science and religion will be torn apart and the fields will open up for public, unrestricted debate.
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Re: Contemporary Great Pyramid Document

Postby circumspice » Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:40 am

Skiessa wrote:the best you can do is to flood the whole page with your comment in hope that anyone reading this forum will not bother to read the previous discussion, and see how the only way you can hold on to your archaeological view is to ignore everything that is said to you. the really sad thing here isn't even you, but the whole mainstream archaeology which is relied on this very same type rhetorics - ascending above the debate relying on authority.

I rest my case here, hopefully the world keeps going on the same path where even the most dogmatic perceptions of science and religion will be torn apart and the fields will open up for public, unrestricted debate.



:lol: LMAO! You just earned 100 points! Woo-hoo! Good job! :lol:
"Damn with faint praise, assent with civil leer, and, without sneering, teach the rest to sneer." ~ Alexander Pope
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Re: Contemporary Great Pyramid Document

Postby Minimalist » Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:59 pm

In your mind they are so evil and inept that your own weak and un-evidenced idea must be accepted based solely on the presumed weaknesses of the orthodox position.


That's the basis of creationism. They have no evidence at all for their theory so they insist on making up "problems" with evolution. They then insist that since evolution is wrong their horseshit must be true.

It is also the basis of the modern republican party.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

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Re: Contemporary Great Pyramid Document

Postby Skiessa » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:35 pm

Minimalist wrote:
In your mind they are so evil and inept that your own weak and un-evidenced idea must be accepted based solely on the presumed weaknesses of the orthodox position.


That's the basis of creationism. They have no evidence at all for their theory so they insist on making up "problems" with evolution. They then insist that since evolution is wrong their horseshit must be true.

It is also the basis of the modern republican party.


in science, one doesn't need evidence to prove wrong something that hasn't been backed up by the evidence at the first place (like we don't need the evidence to prove that the aliens didn't build the pyramids). mainstream archaeological idea of the pyramids built by egyptians lacks such evidence, so one doesn't need evidence for any alternative theory not to believe in the mainstream model. it's a fairy tale without anything concrete backing it up - it still needs to be proven in the first place before one can obligate any alternative theorist to prove it wrong.
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Re: Contemporary Great Pyramid Document

Postby E.P. Grondine » Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:00 pm

Hi skiessa -

I find it sad that no translation of the Red Sea document is easily available on line.

You have to remember that geologists working at Giza found a quarry immediately in front of the Great Pyramid,
and that no less a "skeptic" than Christopher Dunne himself discovered a couple of rock saw pits in the same area.
(You may want to check out his videos on Youtube.)

Besides the workmen's quarters at Giza,
there was also an earlier pyramid which collapsed during its construction.
In my view, excavations there through that collapse debris
are likely to reveal exact details of the ancient Egyptian's methods of pyramid construction.

Just because we do not know definitively how and why they did i right now,
obtaining those answers is mainly a question of money.
With so may ruins, and so little money,
questions as to the pyramids are likely to be definitively answered only some time later on.

In the meantime, there are a lot of people who will try to use those "mysteries"
to sell you a lot of shit.
Usually people believe what they want to believe until reality intrudes.
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Re: Contemporary Great Pyramid Document

Postby Minimalist » Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:45 pm

in science, one doesn't need evidence to prove wrong something that hasn't been backed up by the evidence at the first place


Tell that to the creatards. I already know.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

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