Contemporary Great Pyramid Document

The Old World is a reference to those parts of Earth known to Europeans before the voyages of Christopher Columbus; it includes Europe, Asia and Africa.

Moderators: Minimalist, MichelleH

Re: Contemporary Great Pyramid Document

Postby E.P. Grondine » Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:58 pm

Usually people believe what they want to believe until reality intrudes.
User avatar
E.P. Grondine
 
Posts: 2029
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:36 am

Re: Contemporary Great Pyramid Document

Postby circumspice » Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:02 am

Skiessa wrote:
Simon21 wrote:
Skiessa wrote:"Over a period of several months, [the logbook] reports — in [the] form of a timetable with two columns per day — many operations related to the construction of the Great Pyramid of Khufu at Giza and the work at the limestone quarries on the opposite bank of the Nile," eh, did the ancient egyptians really use the term of "great pyramid" and the name "giza" to refer to the giza plateau?

but assuming that this papyri would be authentic, it would mean that they would have had to quarry, transport and place one stone in every 4 minutes - even less if any time was used to plan the construction process. you do realize that with all the modern technology we couldn't do this? please don't come up with the under estimation of the ancient people argument - a horse cannot ride from the quarry to the giza plateau in 4 minutes.


It could if it was being transported by helicopter. Think outside the box


o____o

the world would have so much fewer ancient alien hypotheses if the burden of proof would apply to the field of archaeology even to the extent of making claims physically possible.


*face palm*

Here we go again... "Ancient Egyptians couldn't possibly have built the pyramids because they were primitive & ignorant"...

So... What is your pet theory on how & by whom the pyramids were built?

The following link shows, in great detail, how much of the work was accomplished based on existing artifacts,
inscriptions, graffiti & still extant traces of the processes involved. It might surprise you to know that:

a. The Great Pyramid was built upon a bedrock mound to save on the amount of building stone that needed to be quarried. The total extent of that mound is currently unknown & debated.

b. The nearest of 3 known quarries was a scant 300 meters from the building site.

c. Horses were unknown in ancient Egypt at the time of the construction of the pyramids on the Giza Plateau.

& last, but certainly not least...

d. The terms used in the news articles about the contemporary documents concerning the Great Pyramid are modern terms used by the writers of the articles so that people who read the articles would have a familiar frame of reference in regard to the content of the articles.

'nuff said?

https://www.cheops-pyramide.ch/khufu-py ... -yard.html


And no, this reconstruction of the construction methods used for building the Great Pyramid is not the last word on the subject. It is one of many proposed theories.

You may object because your pet theory or belief is not represented...
"Damn with faint praise, assent with civil leer, and, without sneering, teach the rest to sneer." ~ Alexander Pope
User avatar
circumspice
 
Posts: 670
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 7:10 pm

Re: Contemporary Great Pyramid Document

Postby Skiessa » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:14 pm

*face palm*

Here we go again... "Ancient Egyptians couldn't possibly have built the pyramids because they were primitive & ignorant"...

So... What is your pet theory on how & by whom the pyramids were built?

The following link shows, in great detail, how much of the work was accomplished based on existing artifacts,
inscriptions, graffiti & still extant traces of the processes involved. It might surprise you to know that:

a. The Great Pyramid was built upon a bedrock mound to save on the amount of building stone that needed to be quarried. The total extent of that mound is currently unknown & debated.

b. The nearest of 3 known quarries was a scant 300 meters from the building site.

c. Horses were unknown in ancient Egypt at the time of the construction of the pyramids on the Giza Plateau.

& last, but certainly not least...

d. The terms used in the news articles about the contemporary documents concerning the Great Pyramid are modern terms used by the writers of the articles so that people who read the articles would have a familiar frame of reference in regard to the content of the articles.

'nuff said?

https://www.cheops-pyramide.ch/khufu-py ... -yard.html


And no, this reconstruction of the construction methods used for building the Great Pyramid is not the last word on the subject. It is one of many proposed theories.

You may object because your pet theory or belief is not represented...
[/quote]

"primitive & ignorant" as i said earlier, the modern human couldn't quarry, transport and place a 2 ton stone in 4 minutes with all the technology we have. even if the stones would have been cut right next to the construction site just the cutting and placing process would take millions of times longer than the given 4 minutes.

"what is your pet theory" i don't have one. nothing of what i know from the ancient human history can explain the astounding accuracy towards the true north, the perfection of detail and all the mathematics presented in the pyramid.

"horses were unknown" make it a gepard lol.

"was built on a bedrock to save.." explains nothing - even with just million stones used the time limit per stone would be less than 9 minutes.

"terms used" i certainly hope so, but taking in to an account that the logbook is reported by the ministry of antiquities of egypt i wouldn't bet my money on it's authenticity. especially when such short document just happens to contain all the required information to certify the mainstream view. but after all, even if the document would be authentic i would still rather assume it to be the ancient egyptians trolling the archaeologists of the future, rather than being serious about the claims - no papyri can explain of how the 4 minutes time limit and the astounding accuracy within was achieved. -let me underline this again: we could barely achieve the accuracy with the 21st century technology and even with all the tech we still couldn't hit the 4 minute limit.
Skiessa
 
Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:22 am

Re: Contemporary Great Pyramid Document

Postby Tiompan » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:28 pm

Skiessa wrote: nothing of what i know from the ancient human history can explain the astounding accuracy towards the true north, .

[/quote]

We don't know for sure how they did it but it wasn't that difficult using the tech of the time . See Glenn dash , Kate Spence etc .
https://www.academia.edu/4035001/How_th ... True_North
Tiompan
 
Posts: 1012
Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 5:13 am

Re: Contemporary Great Pyramid Document

Postby circumspice » Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:03 pm

@skiessa: You seem to be obsessed with a certain number of minutes being required to place each stone in place on the Great Pyramid. Please provide a source for your contention that either 4 or 9 minutes was required to place each stone.
"Damn with faint praise, assent with civil leer, and, without sneering, teach the rest to sneer." ~ Alexander Pope
User avatar
circumspice
 
Posts: 670
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 7:10 pm


Re: Contemporary Great Pyramid Document

Postby Minimalist » Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:52 pm

they would have had to quarry, transport and place one stone in every 4 minutes



And even that is working 24/7 365 days a year for 20 years. I recall doing the math one time somewhere on this very site.

And if you then restrict the work time to daylight only - unless you want to pretend they had floodlights - you are down to one stone every 2 minutes and if, as the Egyptologists say you can only work during the flood period well shit. I can't even do that math!
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin
Minimalist
 
Posts: 15470
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:09 pm
Location: Arizona

Re: Contemporary Great Pyramid Document

Postby Skiessa » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:54 pm

Tiompan wrote:
Skiessa wrote: nothing of what i know from the ancient human history can explain the astounding accuracy towards the true north, .



We don't know for sure how they did it but it wasn't that difficult using the tech of the time . See Glenn dash , Kate Spence etc .
https://www.academia.edu/4035001/How_th ... True_North[/quote]

you do realize that this is no kind of argument? argument to assume that the pyramids were built with ease because they had to be built by egyptians because they were living on the site in ancient times? assumption that defies the laws of physics built on assumption that builds only on our desire to believe that the residents built the house.
Skiessa
 
Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:22 am

Re: Contemporary Great Pyramid Document

Postby Skiessa » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:58 pm

circumspice wrote:@skiessa: You seem to be obsessed with a certain number of minutes being required to place each stone in place on the Great Pyramid. Please provide a source for your contention that either 4 or 9 minutes was required to place each stone.


in the math i simple calculate of how many minutes there are in 20 years, and divide it with the assumed amount of stones used. and yeah, in such math i assume that the work was done 24 hours a day. i'm "obsessed" with this because the mainstream archaeology has never even attemted to make any sense out of this, and yet this is direct cause from the mainstream model of how pyramids were built.
Skiessa
 
Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:22 am

Re: Contemporary Great Pyramid Document

Postby E.P. Grondine » Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:39 am

skiessa, you need to understand that the stones inside the pyramids were very rough stones, not finished stones like those on the outside.
It is also certain that the ancient Egyptians used several machines of some sort, although no one has found their remains yet.
There is a lot of sand there which will have to be moved to find those.
Usually people believe what they want to believe until reality intrudes.
User avatar
E.P. Grondine
 
Posts: 2029
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:36 am

Re: Contemporary Great Pyramid Document

Postby circumspice » Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:20 am

Ok. Let's see if I understand fully what skiessa & min are saying...

Only one stone can be put into place at any given point in time.

Am I correct?

Even though Khufu had an estimated 20,000 man workforce in place on the Giza Plateau during the flood season, which is when the workers are free to do their corvee labor & the work of placing the stone blocks was done... (note: that is also when the food & other supplies to feed & care for that workforce was transported in) What were the other 19,900 workers doing while 100 were working to place that single 2+ ton block of stone???

I just don't get it... That type of math defies logic. What if they were placing 20 stones every 4 minutes? Or 50? The quarries could be worked year round. The stones could be trimmed to size & shape year round. The flood/inundation time was only required for transporting the stone blocks to the building site, along with food & supplies... & that was really only for the granite from Aswan & the white Tura limestone casing blocks from a quarry approx. 13-17 kms south of the building site. As previously stated, the bulk of the limestone blocks were from a quarry only about 300 meters from the building site. Why wouldn't they quarry & trim those stones all year round & stage them close to the work site so that work could commence immediately upon the workers arrival?

It's a logistical nightmare, but it is possible given that Khufu had 23, 27, 46 or 63 years in which to accomplish the task. The minimum number of years in Khufu's reign was 23 years, but the Merer papyrus documents give the date as the year following the 13th cattle count of Khufu's reign, which would be 27 years. That seems to be more accurate since it's a contemporary document. 23-27 years is a long time in which to work on a project.
"Damn with faint praise, assent with civil leer, and, without sneering, teach the rest to sneer." ~ Alexander Pope
User avatar
circumspice
 
Posts: 670
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 7:10 pm

Re: Contemporary Great Pyramid Document

Postby Skiessa » Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:17 am

E.P. Grondine wrote:skiessa, you need to understand that the stones inside the pyramids were very rough stones, not finished stones like those on the outside.
It is also certain that the ancient Egyptians used several machines of some sort, although no one has found their remains yet.
There is a lot of sand there which will have to be moved to find those.


rough stones - this actually underlines the problem here, rather tan takes it away. NONE of the building blocks used were identical, which means that to accomplish a perfect geometrical shape that would also be earthquake-proof the majority of the stones had to be cut to mirror each other's flaws. the smaller errors made would not be visible to the naked eye during the construction process but any of the smallest errors would almost certainly be visible on the finished pyramid, because every small error grows in ratio to the amount of stones built on it. i don't even dare to guess of to which decimal the blocks should be balanced to sustain the perfect geometrical shape, but for sure you couldn't achieve such perfection even with the classical bubble level.

while it's possible to correct the errors every now and then by mirroring the layers to the errors, too much correction weakens the structure which obviously has been kept in minimum since the pyramid has withstood at least 4,5 thousands of years of earth quakes.

and since we are inside the pyramid, the interiors were largely crafted from granite (which bronze tools doesn't cut in first place) to an accuracy that no slice of paper fits between the stones. largest of these blocks weighted 70 tons. you do realize that a full loaded semi truck usually weights less? these blocks didn't have 36 rubber tires on them, and had to be crafted in such precision mirroring every single flaw of the next stone before placing them to their final position.

also somehow the builders were able to make the pyramid not 4, but 8-sided in perfect lines while sustaining the perfect geometrical shape of the pyramid.

what the egyptologists seem to forget every single time they describe the construction of the pyramid is that the construction wasn't just about quarrying and carrying the heavy stones - at least as tremendous feat was the actual placement of the stones.
Last edited by Skiessa on Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Skiessa
 
Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:22 am

Re: Contemporary Great Pyramid Document

Postby Skiessa » Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:38 am

circumspice wrote:Ok. Let's see if I understand fully what skiessa & min are saying...

Only one stone can be put into place at any given point in time.

Am I correct?

Even though Khufu had an estimated 20,000 man workforce in place on the Giza Plateau during the flood season, which is when the workers are free to do their corvee labor & the work of placing the stone blocks was done... (note: that is also when the food & other supplies to feed & care for that workforce was transported in) What were the other 19,900 workers doing while 100 were working to place that single 2+ ton block of stone???

I just don't get it... That type of math defies logic. What if they were placing 20 stones every 4 minutes? Or 50? The quarries could be worked year round. The stones could be trimmed to size & shape year round. The flood/inundation time was only required for transporting the stone blocks to the building site, along with food & supplies... & that was really only for the granite from Aswan & the white Tura limestone casing blocks from a quarry approx. 13-17 kms south of the building site. As previously stated, the bulk of the limestone blocks were from a quarry only about 300 meters from the building site. Why wouldn't they quarry & trim those stones all year round & stage them close to the work site so that work could commence immediately upon the workers arrival?

It's a logistical nightmare, but it is possible given that Khufu had 23, 27, 46 or 63 years in which to accomplish the task. The minimum number of years in Khufu's reign was 23 years, but the Merer papyrus documents give the date as the year following the 13th cattle count of Khufu's reign, which would be 27 years. That seems to be more accurate since it's a contemporary document. 23-27 years is a long time in which to work on a project.


the 4 minute limit is the minimum average rate of which the stones had to be quarried, carried and placed to their final position in order to hit the 20 year time limit. of course they could work with several stones at once, but even with 100 stones worked at once you would have only 7,5 hours to work each set trough the full process - 7,5 hours to cut the stones with bronze tools, carry them for hundreds of meters to many kilometers without wheel, and place them with the astounding accuracy required to build a 8-sided geometrically perfect pyramid. (see the problem of the construction process in more detail on my previous comment).

even if they had built it for 63 years, which would make the rate of construction to about one day per 100 stones, and assume that the cutting and transportation could somehow be achieved (don't forget that the nights of egypt are pitch black), the accuracy of the construction still defies explanation - raw manpower doesn't craft 150 meters high pyramids in geometrically perfect shape.
Last edited by Skiessa on Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
Skiessa
 
Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:22 am

Re: Contemporary Great Pyramid Document

Postby circumspice » Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:49 am

A theory as to how the primitive, ignorant ancient Egyptians built their pyramids... Do please note that the Great Pyramid did not spring into being fully conceived & with absolute perfection. There was an experimental period where the pyramid builders made just about every mistake that is possible to make... Some were abandoned before completion.

I don't know where you're going with this but you seem to be leaning toward the superior white Atlantian race or some other such nonsense. Ancient Aliens anyone?

Anyway, here is a speculative look at how building a pyramid could be accomplished using primitive technology & simple materials.

Of course, you'll naysay it, stating that modern people couldn't do it even with all our technology... Would you care to explain why it can't be done by modern humans??? That might be entertaining...


https://www.cheops-pyramide.ch/pyramid-building.html
"Damn with faint praise, assent with civil leer, and, without sneering, teach the rest to sneer." ~ Alexander Pope
User avatar
circumspice
 
Posts: 670
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 7:10 pm

Re: Contemporary Great Pyramid Document

Postby Skiessa » Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:01 pm

circumspice wrote:A theory as to how the primitive, ignorant ancient Egyptians built their pyramids... Do please note that the Great Pyramid did not spring into being fully conceived & with absolute perfection. There was an experimental period where the pyramid builders made just about every mistake that is possible to make... Some were abandoned before completion.

I don't know where you're going with this but you seem to be leaning toward the superior white Atlantian race or some other such nonsense. Ancient Aliens anyone?

Anyway, here is a speculative look at how building a pyramid could be accomplished using primitive technology & simple materials.

Of course, you'll naysay it, stating that modern people couldn't do it even with all our technology... Would you care to explain why it can't be done by modern humans??? That might be entertaining...


https://www.cheops-pyramide.ch/pyramid-building.html


I already replied to your ancient aliens assault on the other thread of completely different topic which you somehow managed to drag into the ancient egypt, which you didn't reply. instead of trolling in an academic forum go back to 4chan to mind your teenager business.
Skiessa
 
Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:22 am

PreviousNext

Return to Old World

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests