Finkelstein and the use of Biblical Texts

The Old World is a reference to those parts of Earth known to Europeans before the voyages of Christopher Columbus; it includes Europe, Asia and Africa.

Moderators: Minimalist, MichelleH

Re: Finkelstein and the use of Biblical Texts

Postby uniface » Thu Aug 21, 2014 4:13 pm

Back to ignoring you now.
uniface
 

Re: Finkelstein and the use of Biblical Texts

Postby E.P. Grondine » Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:41 pm

uniface wrote:Back to ignoring you now.


Why?
Is the History Channel running an "Ancient Aliens" marathon?
Usually people believe what they want to believe until reality intrudes.
User avatar
E.P. Grondine
 
Posts: 1918
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:36 am

Re: Finkelstein and the use of Biblical Texts

Postby E.P. Grondine » Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:01 pm

Minimalist wrote:Sorry, E.P. but in a choice between competent archaeologists and you, you come in second.

Quoting 100 year old bible-thumpers who had an agenda to begin with does not compare to scientific radio-carbon dating techniques.


Hi min -

As I've mentioned, a lot of nuts try to play archaeologist, sometimes with very destructive results, which rapidly causes the laughter to stop.

And as I mentioned, I've met a lot of professional archaeologists working here in Ohio, not only earning a living at it but even teaching, who have no idea who the Shawnee were.

min, I don't have any illusions about the agenda and biases of modern Israeli archaeologists, one in which the Palestinians are the descendants of local pirates.

They are trying to put together a national myth, just as the archaeologists working and teaching here in Ohio are.

And I do not have any illusions about the fundamentalist Christian US archaeologists working with them.

They are trying to prove that the Bible is "true".

I am used to holding my thoughts by myself. My views on early Christianity you know. My view, developed before my stroke, that the Indo-european in the Linear B tablets is closer Hittite than to Classical Greek did not win many friends either. Now I am dealing with a far more serious topic, that of impact events, and how large that hazard is.

Remember that your opinions and desires will never trump data, and that the next impactor headed our way does not care about them. It is as cold as space.

I keep pointing to contemporary well understood documents, and you keep talking about the Bible.
That is your problem, and NOT mine.

Please note carefully that my chronology does not use the Bible, and is not dependant on it.

Ethnically, I am fairly certain that on a mt DNA basis or Y DNA basis there really isn't that much difference between native Israelis and the Palestinians, just as there is very little racial difference between many Greeks and Turks. I believe you just ceded that point.

Now I do not want to question you about your religious beliefs, but I think that you will have to agree that just because an event is mentioned in the Bible does not mean that it did not occur.
Usually people believe what they want to believe until reality intrudes.
User avatar
E.P. Grondine
 
Posts: 1918
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:36 am

Re: Finkelstein and the use of Biblical Texts

Postby uniface » Fri Aug 22, 2014 6:51 pm

Not ignoring you, E. P.

Just the recorded messages from the Matrix that my posts trigger.
uniface
 

Re: Finkelstein and the use of Biblical Texts

Postby E.P. Grondine » Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:42 pm

uniface wrote:Not ignoring you, E. P.

Just the recorded messages from the Matrix that my posts trigger.


Well, uni, I wish you would ignore me. as I already have all too many nuts focused on me, and do not need one more.

If you wanted to interrupt a fairly serious discussion on Late Bronze Age/ Early Iron Age dating with crap,
then you succeeded.
Usually people believe what they want to believe until reality intrudes.
User avatar
E.P. Grondine
 
Posts: 1918
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:36 am

Re: Finkelstein and the use of Biblical Texts

Postby uniface » Fri Aug 22, 2014 8:33 pm

Have a nice life, E.P. :)
uniface
 

Re: Finkelstein and the use of Biblical Texts

Postby E.P. Grondine » Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:26 am

uniface wrote:Have a nice life, E.P. :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hMx6qjgi6Y

I think Johnny Depp will make an excellent Richard Kieninger. :evil: :twisted:
Usually people believe what they want to believe until reality intrudes.
User avatar
E.P. Grondine
 
Posts: 1918
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:36 am

Re: Finkelstein and the use of Biblical Texts

Postby Minimalist » Sat Aug 23, 2014 11:54 am

When you keep trotting out 'joshua' I doubt your sincerity, E.P.

The OT, in its more or less final form, was concocted from various bits of local folklore to give the Hasmonean dynasty a glorious history. The time period between 140 BC and 90 BC is virtually the only point in time when an independent, ostensibly "jewish" polity existed in the region. It did become a minor regional power before dissolving into dynastic squabbling and civil war aided and abetted by other local powers ( Parthia, Nabatea.)

Writing in antiquity served the need of the power structure.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin
Minimalist
 
Posts: 15443
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:09 pm
Location: Arizona

Re: Finkelstein and the use of Biblical Texts

Postby E.P. Grondine » Sun Aug 24, 2014 9:37 am

Minimalist wrote:The OT, in its more or less final form, was concocted from various bits of local folklore to give the Hasmonean dynasty a glorious history.


Obliviously, the OT sources appear to be far more than "folklore".

Now the sources for Tantalus, there you are talking folklore.

Minimalist wrote:The time period between 140 BC and 90 BC is virtually the only point in time when an independent, ostensibly "jewish" polity existed in the region.


I do not agree with you there.

Minimalist wrote:It did become a minor regional power before dissolving into dynastic squabbling and civil war aided and abetted by other local powers ( Parthia, Nabatea.)


Not all power is "physical".

Minimalist wrote:Writing in antiquity served the need of the power structure.


Just as writing ON antiquity does today.

You have to remember min, that there is a "higher" power that sometimes intrudes upon human affairs.
One of its many aspects is called "impact" and magical thinking will not do in dealing with it.
Usually people believe what they want to believe until reality intrudes.
User avatar
E.P. Grondine
 
Posts: 1918
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:36 am

Re: Finkelstein and the use of Biblical Texts

Postby E.P. Grondine » Sun Aug 24, 2014 12:22 pm

Hi Min -

I am not these scholars:
https://answersingenesis.org/archaeolog ... -conquest/

and their analyses are not my analysis, which may be found here:
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2247

Note that in my chronology the invasion occurs ca. 1585 BCE., in the times of Hantilishi.


Also, the Khittim were far more than simply Cypriotes.
I now find that every apocalyptic cult from Qumran to Mormons have latched onto the Khittim.

Finally, I am trying to work out how he Boycott, Divestiture, and Sanctions movement will affect future archaeology in the region.

The current military actions are leading to a lot of publication.
Usually people believe what they want to believe until reality intrudes.
User avatar
E.P. Grondine
 
Posts: 1918
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:36 am

Re: Finkelstein and the use of Biblical Texts

Postby E.P. Grondine » Sun Aug 24, 2014 2:30 pm

A new find:

http://www.inerrantword.com/180015375/b ... Scriptures

What is amazing is the fundamentalists' fundemental ignorance of the work done on the dating of the eruption of Thera, and its relationship to Exodus.

Instead, they work from their estimate of the dating of Solomon, and then try to go backwards.

The data from tree rings and ice cores is ignored.

"My Lord, My Lord! Why have you thus afflicted me?
Verily, Lord, I am surrounded by idiots.
Surely in all of your creation there must be an abode for the wise.
Where doth the wise dwell?
Oxford? Cambridge?
Paris? Berlin? Chicago?
Or on he bright sandy beaches of Crete,
right outside the bars?
Perhaps aboard some small cruise liner,
sailing the wine dark Aegean,
and eastern Mediterranean ports?
Speak, Oh Lord,
and but provide a way,
and your humble servant will follow."

Lamentations, 19

My search for images of the eruption of Thera continues.
Usually people believe what they want to believe until reality intrudes.
User avatar
E.P. Grondine
 
Posts: 1918
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:36 am

Re: Finkelstein and the use of Biblical Texts

Postby E.P. Grondine » Sun Aug 24, 2014 4:12 pm

"Verily, Verily, Lord:
For they wander about lost,
like little children:
ignorant of ground penetrating radar,
electric resistivity surveys,
and magnetic surveys.
Knowing not of metal detecting,
nor talking to the local villagers,
who dislike them intensely,
for many good reasons.

"Yet while wandering about in the darkness of their ignorance,
like children at play
they loudly shout out
that they are guides.

"My Lord, surely you are their father,
and will take them in hand,
and prevent them from interfering with afternoon naps."

Lamentations, 20
Usually people believe what they want to believe until reality intrudes.
User avatar
E.P. Grondine
 
Posts: 1918
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:36 am

Re: Finkelstein and the use of Biblical Texts

Postby Minimalist » Sun Aug 24, 2014 6:08 pm

Obliviously, the OT sources appear to be far more than "folklore".


To whom?

I submit that people with a vested interest in making this horseshit true would agree with you. Those who can examine reality dispassionately will...and have...reached other conclusions.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin
Minimalist
 
Posts: 15443
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:09 pm
Location: Arizona

Re: Finkelstein and the use of Biblical Texts

Postby E.P. Grondine » Sun Aug 24, 2014 7:27 pm

"Verily, Verily Verily, My Lord:
Deliver me from the babblings of idiots:
For their words doth fall from their mouths
As dung falls from the hindquarters of the ass
when it hath gotten into the wine.
For they speak knowingly of
Late Helladic,
Late Mycenean,
and Late Cypriot,
while fiercely waving their arms somewhere towards
the direction of the sea."

Lamentations, 21
Last edited by E.P. Grondine on Sun Aug 24, 2014 7:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Usually people believe what they want to believe until reality intrudes.
User avatar
E.P. Grondine
 
Posts: 1918
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:36 am

Re: Finkelstein and the use of Biblical Texts

Postby E.P. Grondine » Sun Aug 24, 2014 7:28 pm

Minimalist wrote:
Obliviously, the OT sources appear to be far more than "folklore".


To whom?

I submit that people with a vested interest in making this horseshit true would agree with you. Those who can examine reality dispassionately will...and have...reached other conclusions.


Yes, and they may not be the same as yours, min. :twisted:
Usually people believe what they want to believe until reality intrudes.
User avatar
E.P. Grondine
 
Posts: 1918
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:36 am

PreviousNext

Return to Old World

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

cron