Atlantic Challenge Rowing Race Now Underway

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Atlantic Challenge Rowing Race Now Underway

Postby Samra » Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:43 pm

Dear All,

After a two day delay due to bad weather this year's 3,000 mile rowing race across the Atlantic Ocean from the Isla de la Gomera in the Canary Islands to Antigua in the West Indies is now underway. It's estimated it will take the small crews of one to five men and women about 40 to 90 days to complete the crossing. They will typically be rowing around the clock in 2 hour shifts for the duration.

You can receive updates and track the progress of the rowing teams at:

The Talisker Whisky Atlantic Challenge Website

From the maritime experiences of my youth and on learning of the Atlantic Challenge I imagined what it probably would have been like for the crews of over 40 rowers working the oars around the clock in shifts on the large ships depicted in the Miniature Frieze from Akrotiri. A big crew of well rested rowers working in shifts allows a large vessel to travel more consistently at a somewhat faster speed than a small crew on a smaller ship or boat.

Approximating an average ship speed of 4 miles an hour gives a total distance traveled per day of 96 miles. Therefore the distance between say the Minoan port of Kommos, Crete and the Bronze Age Argaric port of Punta de los Gavilanes (a little over a mile southwest of modern Puerto de Mazarron) on the eastern coast of Spain which is only about half the distance of the Atlantic Challenge (1,500 miles) could be traveled in something like 15 or 16 days. Three (3) miles an hour (a typical human walking speed) still works out to only about 21 days or three weeks to traverse the Mediterranean.

Kind Regards,
W. Sheppard Baird

"The Primacy of Human Powered Rowing in Copper Age and Minoan Shipping"
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Re: Atlantic Challenge Rowing Race Now Underway

Postby kbs2244 » Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:28 am

What about having a sail for help?
Useing oars only when becalmed.
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Re: Atlantic Challenge Rowing Race Now Underway

Postby Samra » Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:45 pm

I just addressed this issue with a colleague of mine who has been researching the possibility of a Bronze Age crossing of the Atlantic for some time. Here's what I wrote:

I'm happy to have provided some undeniable and confirmable evidence for your theories. Here's some other information that I hope may be helpful to you.

I believe the "rowing only" Atlantic Challenge record for crossing the ocean is a little over 5 weeks. Columbus' first voyage using "sails only" took about the same time - around 37 days. The trade winds and current of this part of the ocean are quite favorable for assisting a ship in a voyage from east to west. Working with other scholars I've estimated that the Minoan long ships depicted in the Miniature Frieze were much larger (greater than 35 meters in length) than Columbus' largest ship on his first voyage - the Santa Maria (maximum of 26.4 meters). It seems to me that by using its sail when the winds were blowing and the great power of its many rowers in round the clock shifts when they weren't a large Minoan ship could cross the ocean in significantly less time than either the modern Atlantic challengers or Columbus. If one of these ships could have maintained an average ship speed of 5 miles per hour they would have made the crossing in about 25 days. Four (4) miles an hour allows for a crossing in something like 31 days, etc.

Another consideration is that if these ancient voyages were made to seek out metals it certainly would not have been to find Copper. The mineral ores of Copper are very abundant in the greater Mediterranean. Why go thousands of miles for a resource that is practically everywhere underfoot. The desired metals would have been Gold and Silver and possibly even Tin depending on how well guarded this resource was in certain periods.

Best Wishes for the Holidays and New Year,
Sheppard
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Re: Atlantic Challenge Rowing Race Now Underway

Postby hardaker » Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:46 pm

From my failed, out of print book, something from 2004:

British pair becomes first mother and daughter team to cross Atlantic in rowboat
Wednesday, May 5, 2004
(05-05) 09:03 PDT BRIDGETOWN, Barbados (AP) –
Sarah and Sally Kettle have become the first mother-daughter team to cross the Atlantic in a row boat.
The British pair set off in a 23-foot plywood boat, the Calderdale, from the Canary Islands on Jan. 20, along with 13 other boats racing in the Ocean Rowing Society's Atlantic Rowing Regatta.
Sarah, 45, and Sally, 27, arrived late Tuesday night in Barbados after the 2,907-mile journey.
"Fantastic, absolutely fantastic," Sarah Kettle said.
She said the trip was fueled by chocolate.
"We ate so much chocolate. I never ate so much chocolate until now," she said.

_____________
i just love that story. Glad they are still doing it.
Chris Hardaker
The First American: The Suppressed Story of the People Who Discovered the New World [ https://www.amazon.com/First-American-S ... 1564149420 ]
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Re: Atlantic Challenge Rowing Race Now Underway

Postby Minimalist » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:30 pm

Whether or not something can be done says nothing about whether or not it was done.

I could have made love to a super model but I have not.

:(
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

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Re: Atlantic Challenge Rowing Race Now Underway

Postby Samra » Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:03 pm

Yes, you're right Min. I've yet to see any real confirmable evidence for Trans-Atlantic maritime travel in the Bronze Age. The only thing that can be said so far is that it is an undeniable technological possibility but I'm not comfortable working in these murky areas and leave this to others. My mind is open but I await a presentation of some real evidence.

My main focus is on working with my colleagues to hopefully solve some of the great mysteries of the late Bronze Age. What were the causal mechanisms and sequence of events that brought almost everything crashing down so deeply into chaos and destruction at the end of the Bronze Age after such a promising start on the road to civilization in the greater Mediterranean?
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Re: Atlantic Challenge Rowing Race Now Underway

Postby Minimalist » Wed Dec 11, 2013 5:34 pm

I'll tell you what bothers me most about all this Romans/Carthaginians/Welsh/Irish/Mesopotamians/Phoenicians stuff. In 1492 we KNOW that mariners from the Old World made it to America and unleashed plagues of unimaginable scale on the inhabitants. Why would that not have happened with an earlier crossing? None of the people knew anything about germ theory. They thought the gods sent disease.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

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Re: Atlantic Challenge Rowing Race Now Underway

Postby circumspice » Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:21 pm

In 1000 a.d. Vikings migrated to the New World, establishing a few struggling communities. There is no documentation of them spreading contagious diseases among the indigenous populations.
"Damn with faint praise, assent with civil leer, and, without sneering, teach the rest to sneer." ~ Alexander Pope
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Re: Atlantic Challenge Rowing Race Now Underway

Postby hardaker » Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:17 am

Hi Min,
"Whether or not something can be done says nothing about whether or not it was done."
The example of now shows that it was possible then, if the currents were the same. Just another piece for the data pile. Maybe it moves the argument from "impossible" to "improbable, but possible."
Given a min. date of 135k for Crete (always an island), we know the folks were probably tooling around in the oceans at least since then; maybe earlier with the Neanderthal/Mousterian of North Africa and Gibralter. Hard not to think about the Olmec, and whether they came from the Atlantic side or the Pacific side. The Ocos and Barra horizons (pre-Olmec) on the west coast have some real interesting African-like figurines, and then again, there is the Shang script correlations with Olmec writings.

2nd Point re: diseases, maybe there were diseases passed around on earlier contact. We don't know much about the nature of the interactions; maybe it was slight, or became intimate only after a couple generations? Maybe there are bones in drawers that have the evidence but gone unnoticed. Definitely something to look for. Die offs might be a clue to changes in archaeological horizons, perhaps.
Chris Hardaker
The First American: The Suppressed Story of the People Who Discovered the New World [ https://www.amazon.com/First-American-S ... 1564149420 ]
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Re: Atlantic Challenge Rowing Race Now Underway

Postby kbs2244 » Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:46 am

I think we have determined that the huge die off of Western Hemisphere natives was not entirely due to white Europeans.
It was underway when they arrived.

http://www.examiner.com/article/apocaly ... right-next


The first plague to hit the North American mainland was probably small pox, but this is not known for certain. The most likely scenario is that either Calusa merchants based in southern Florida or Maya merchants spread the small pox microbes as they made stops along the Gulf Coast.

Apparently, some time between 1587 and 1600, the Mexican Highland Hemorrhagic Fever, or something very similar, struck the Southern Highlands of the United States. Almost instantaneously, all of the major towns in that region were abandoned. There was such a drop in population that archaeologists rarely even find an occupied Southern Highland town site that dates from the 1600s. Some Native village sites have been discovered that date from the late 1500s that were littered with unburied skeletons.


If the cause of death was that mysterious Mexican plague, the most likely carriers would have been either birds or Monarch butterflies that winter in the Mexican Highlands, then breed in the Southeast.

One of the most important reasons for studying history is to learn lessons that can be applied to the present. The Hantavirus is one story from history that would be best kept in the realm of history.
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Re: Atlantic Challenge Rowing Race Now Underway

Postby Samra » Thu Dec 12, 2013 2:05 pm

Hi Hardaker,

My only purpose for announcing the Atlantic Challenge rowing event to the academics and public was to demonstrate the great strength of the evidence in support of the capacity of the ancients for Trans-Mediterranean maritime travel but I realized there were more far-reaching implications. I must say in advance my knowledge on prehistoric European contact(s) with the Americas is almost non-existent. But since you mentioned the Olmecs I thought you and some others here might be interested in the following response I received from a scholar in New Zealand.

*************

I have come to think that Mediterranean ships (in quest of metals) did pass through the Pillars of Hercules in the Bronze Age, and reach Jamaica, and Mesoamerica.

Phoenician Bronze Cup in Jamaica

The Hyksos King Apophis seems to be the driving force, as he claimed to have a far-flung empire, and it is in that period (16th C BCE) that Olmec culture sprang up without any known precedent, and the Mesoamericans were doing the same things as the Mediterranean people: stamp and cylinder "seals", round-top stelae, writing (the deciphered Maya script is the same kind of acrophonic syllabary as the West Semitic logo-syllabary, as seen on the Jamaica cup), temples and pyramids, human sacrifice, child sacrifices to a rain and water god, et cetera.

These explorers and prospectors also went north on the Atlantic.

Phoenicians in Scandinavia

Whether they were Cretan or Phoenician/Canaanian is being disputed by some or dismissed as preposterous by others.

Dare I mention Perseus and the Gorgon Medusa in Peru and the Andean labyrinth of Chavin? (Enrico Mattievich)

Here is a scenario for a movie: the Mediterranean ships arrive in America 3000 years before Columbus and Cortes, and the message was the same: We come in the name of a great God and a powerful King, to whom you must submit.

The Phoenicians certainly circumnavigated Africa around 600 BCE. If anyone tells me that Mediterraneans could not cross the Atlantic Ocean 4000 years ago and meet Mesoamericans, then I simply say that not so long ago two New Zealanders rowed a boat across that stretch of water.

Brian Colless
Massey University, New Zealand
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Re: Atlantic Challenge Rowing Race Now Underway

Postby Minimalist » Thu Dec 12, 2013 2:29 pm

The Hyksos King Apophis seems to be the driving force, as he claimed to have a far-flung empire


The Hyksos did not even control all of Egypt and were eventually driven out by the Upper Egypt dynasties.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin
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