Luwian notes

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Re: Luwian notes

Postby E.P. Grondine » Sun Aug 06, 2017 1:07 pm

Tiompan wrote:And of course what might apply to one area and period might be entirely different to another period and place .

A classic line, tiompan. 8)
Usually people believe what they want to believe until reality intrudes.
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Re: Luwian notes

Postby Tiompan » Sun Aug 06, 2017 1:58 pm

More to the point , in context entirely appropriate .
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Re: Luwian notes

Postby E.P. Grondine » Sun Oct 08, 2017 7:31 am

Hi tiompan -

Since you seem to be upset, let me really outrage you.

I am looking at the possibility of an impact tsunami occcuring in the Atlantic Ocean ca 1,100 BCE.
This would have disrupted the Iberian metal trade,
and this in turn may have led to the collapse in the Eastern Mediterranean.

Another possibility is that an entirely normal climate collapse
may have led to population migrations.

Or perhaps conflicts between the major political powers in the eastern Mediterranean
led to trade system collapse and population migrations.

So there's three distinct hypotheses for you to rage about.
Since several hundred million people if not a billion people now live in the effected areas,
it would be nice to know exactly what happened then.

And If you can't make yourself useful,
then please at least get the f**k out of the way. ... eople.html

My guess is that "Mila" was Classiacl Miletus, Hittite Milawanda.

Usually people believe what they want to believe until reality intrudes.
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Re: Luwian notes

Postby circumspice » Sun Oct 08, 2017 8:25 pm

This is a somewhat self contradictory article. ... eople.html


Zangger and Woudhuizen said that it would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, for Mellaart or someone else to create such a forgery. The inscription is very lengthy, and Mellaart couldn't read, much less write Luwian, they said in their paper. They also noted that nobody had deciphered Luwian until the 1950s, which means that Perrot wouldn't have been able to forge it either. Zangger and Woudhuizen added that few scholars today are able to read Luwian, much less write a lengthy inscription. They said they also don't understand why Mellaart would have wanted to create a lengthy and complex forgery, but leave it largely unpublished.

Mellaart was accused in his life of inadvertently aiding smugglers and exaggerating or even "imagining evidence" (as Ian Hodder, the current director of excavations at Çatalhöyük put it) to prove his archaeological ideas; however, he was never found to have created a forgery, Zangger and Woudhuizen noted.

Even so, Zangger told Live Science that until records of the inscription are found apart from Mellaart's estate, he can't be totally certain it's authentic and not a forgery.
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Re: Luwian notes

Postby kbs2244 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:43 pm

"I am looking at the possibility of an impact tsunami occcuring in the Atlantic Ocean ca 1,100 BCE."
What would be the effect of this water hitting the Gibraltar opening as well as the Atlantic shore on both sides?
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Re: Luwian notes

Postby E.P. Grondine » Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:13 am

The inscription tells of how King Kupantakuruntas ruled a kingdom called Mira that was located in what is now western Turkey. Mira controlled Troy (also in Turkey), according to the inscription, which additionally described Trojan prince Muksus leading a naval expedition that succeeded in conquering Ashkelon, located in modern-day Israel, and constructing a fortress there. [Biblical Battles: 12 Ancient Wars Lifted from the Bible]

The inscription details King Kupantakuruntas' storied path to the throne of Mira: His father, King Mashuittas, took control of Troy after a Trojan king named Walmus was overthrown. Soon after that, King Mashuittas reinstated Walmus on the Trojan throne in exchange for his loyalty to Mira, the inscription says.

Kupantakuruntas became king of Mira after his dad died. He then took control of Troy, although he wasn't the actual king of Troy. In the inscription, Kupantakuruntas describes himself as a guardian of Troy, imploring future rulers of Troy to "guard Wilusa [an ancient name for Troy] (like) the great king (of) Mira (did)." (translation by Woudhuizen)

https://archaeologynewsnetwork.blogspot ... QVvSJ2THLU

The 35-cm tall limestone frieze was found back in 1878 in the village of Beyköy, approximately 34 kilometers north of Afyonkarahisar in modern Turkey. It bears the longest known hieroglyphic inscription from the Bronze Age. Soon after local peasants retrieved the stones from the ground, the French archeologist Georges Perrot was able to carefully copy the inscription. However, the villagers subsequently used the stones as building material for the foundation of their mosque.

From about 1950 onwards, Luwian hieroglyphs could be read. At the time, a Turkish/US-American team of experts was established to translate this and other inscriptions that during the 19th century had made their way into the collections of the Ottoman Empire. However, the publication was delayed again and again. Ultimately, around 1985, all [of] the researchers involved in the project had died.

Copies of these inscriptions resurfaced recently in the estate of the English prehistorian James Mellaart, who died in 2012. In June 2017, Mellaart's son Alan handed over this part of the legacy to the Swiss geoarcheologist Dr. Eberhard Zangger, president of the Luwian Studies foundation, to edit and publish the material in due course. The academic publication of the inscription will appear in December 2017 in the Proceedings of the Dutch Archaeological and Historical Society – TALANTA. Among other things, Zangger and the Dutch linguist and expert in Luwian language and script, Dr. Fred Woudhuizen, will present a transcription, a translation, a detailed commentary, and the remarkable research history of the find.

The inscription and a summary of its contents also appear in a book by Eberhard Zangger that is being published in Germany today: Die Luwier und der Trojanische Krieg – Eine Forschungsgeschichte.

According to Zangger, the inscription was commissioned by Kupanta-Kurunta, the Great King of Mira, a Late Bronze Age state in western Asia Minor.
When Kupanta-Kurunta had reinforced his realm, just before 1190 BC, he ordered his armies to storm toward the east against the vassal states of the Hittites. After successful conquests on land,
the united forces of western Asia Minor also formed a fleet and invaded a number of coastal cities (whose names are given) in the south and southeast of Asia Minor, as well as in Syria and Palestine.

Four great princes commanded the naval forces, among them Muksus from the Troad, the region of ancient Troy.
The Luwians from western Asia Minor advanced all the way to the borders of Egypt, and even built a fortress at Ashkelon in southern Palestine.

According to this inscription, the Luwians from western Asia Minor contributed decisively to the so-called Sea Peoples' invasions –
and thus to the end of the Bronze Age in the eastern Mediterranean.

Read more at https://archaeologynewsnetwork.blogspot ... 37iMMCg.99


Until now, any explanations and scenarios for the end of the Bronze Age have failed to take sufficient account of the kingdoms in Western Asia Minor.
Inscriptions that were found during the 19th century describe in detail the events at the time of the demise of the Hittite empire.
These documents disappeared in government and private collections, and until now remained unpublished.

The Hittite empire collapsed after almost 100 years of civil war. Tribes from the southern shores of the Black Sea raided the defenseless Hittite settlements.
After Hattuša had perished, Kuzitesup of Karkemish, the most influential Hittite vassal, continued to fight for the interests of the former empire.

A military alliance between the countries of Western Asia Minor formed under the leadership of Kupanta-Kurunta,
the Great King of Mira, Arzawa, Šeha, and Wiluša.
Four princes from Western Asia Minor commanded a fleet of 500 ships and 10,000 warriors against Cyprus, Karkemish, and Syria.

The military leader of the raiders was Muksus, a great prince from a neighboring town of Troy. He later succeeded Kupanta-Kurunta.

Kuzitesup of Karkemisch eventually surrendered. The Kings of Western Asia Minor made him their vassal.

The subsequent peace permitted both regions to flourish, Western and Southeastern Asia Minor.
In both areas, use of the Luwian language and the hieroglyphic language prevailed for several centuries.

e.p. - 250 Luwian bullae have recently been excavated at Carchamesh.

In his new book, geoarchaeologist Eberhard Zangger portrays eight discoverers who since 1872 have explored the early history of Anatolia. In retrospect, these pioneers achieved important breakthroughs. During their time, however, they all failed within the university system. This latest piece of research history deals with the ancient documents found at Beyköy – and it reads like a crime novel. Having heard nothing of the fate of the documents for several decades, Zangger embarked on a quest for copies, and succeeded in finding them in the estate of the British prehistorian James Mellaart. The book is published by Orell Füssli in Zurich. It comprises 360 pages and contains 44 illustrations (ISBN 978-3-280-05647-9).

Notes and documents from the estate of the English prehistoric historian James Mellaart report how large documents in Luwian script and language wound up in the collections of the Ottoman Empire and private individuals as early as 1850 to 1900. After 1956, a Turkish-American team of researchers worked on the translation and publication of these documents. Despite this, nothing has ever appeared. Since June 2017, transcripts and translations of the documents have been in the possession of the Luwian Studies foundation. ... ilization/

The inscription describes the rise of a powerful kingdom known as Mira. According to the translation, Mira's ruler, King Mashuittas, stole the Trojan throne from King Walmus and then handed it back in exchange for Troy's loyalty to Mira. When Mashuittas' son, Kupantakuruntas, succeeded his father, he took control of Troy and named himself its guardian. He pleaded with the future rulers of Troy, telling them to "guard Wilusa [an ancient name for Troy] (like) the great king (of) Mira (did)." ... 00520.html

Mellaart briefly mentioned the existence of the inscription in at least one publication, a book review published in 1992 in the Bulletin of the Anglo-Israel Archaeological Society journal. But he never fully described the inscription in a scientific publication.

According to Mellaart's notes, the inscription was copied in 1878 by an archaeologist named Georges Perrot near a village called Beyköy in in Turkey. Shortly after Perrot recorded the inscription, villagers used the stone as building material for a mosque, according to Mellaart's notes. In the aftermath of the inscription being used as building material for the mosque, Turkish authorities searched the village and found three inscribed bronze tablets that are now missing. The bronze tablets were never published and it is not certain exactly what they say.

A scholar named Bahadır Alkım (who died in 1981) rediscovered Perrot's drawing of the inscription and made a copy, which Mellaart, in turn, also copied and which the Swiss-Dutch team has now deciphered.

Mellaart was part of a team of scholars who, starting in 1956, worked to decipher and publish Perrot's copy of the inscription, along with the now-missing bronze tablets and several other Luwian inscriptions, his notes say.

Mellaart's notes state that the team he was part of was unable to publish its work before most of the team members died. The notes add that the team Mellaart worked on included the scholars Albrecht Goetze (died 1971), Bahadır Alkım (died 1981), Handam Alkım (died 1985), Edmund Irwin Gordon (died 1984), Richard David Barnett (died 1986) and Hamit Zübeyir Koşay (died 1984). Mellaart, who was one of the younger members of the team, died at the age of 86, having outlived the rest of his team.

The Swiss-Dutch team found that in his later years, Mellaart spent a considerable amount of time trying to understand the copies of the different Luwian inscriptions in his possession. However, Mellaart couldn't read Luwian; he was brought onto the team for his knowledge of the archaeological landscape of western Turkey, while other members could read the ancient language.
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Re: Luwian notes

Postby E.P. Grondine » Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:34 am



29) Mursili II 1344-1316 BCE
in the 10th year of his reign,
he begins campaign against Hayasha
an omen of the sun occurs
thought to be eclipse of March 13, 1335
Tawanna interprets this as the imminent destruction of royal house
Mursili II ignores him and goes on to conquer Hayasha
(Astour, page 5)

= greek Myrsilios

[deafened by explosion as youth - impact event? - Murshilish I
or accidental conflation of two plague accounts? - e.p.g.]
" the weather god thunder terribly from afar.
And the word in my mouth became small"
20 years of plague
[after effect of impact event? - e.p.g.]

[These two plague accounts have probably been accidentally conflated
see Astour, page 64 - e.p.g.]

Mursili II's father killed Tudhaliya III
(Lehmann, pages 230-231)

One of the causes of the plague was seen to be the breaking of a treaty by
Suppuliliuma's invasion of the Egyptian Amqa
(Astour, page 64)

Manapa-Tarhunta (read "tyrant" for Tarhunta? or an ethnonym (Tyrrehnians= Etruscans?) flees from his brother
Ura-Tarhunta (read "tyrant" for Tarhunta? or an ethnonym (Tyrrehnians= Etruscans?, ruler of Seha River-Appiaya
Manapa-Tarhunta (read "tyrant" for Tarhunta? or an ethnonym (Tyrrehnians= Etruscans?) backs
Uhha-ziti, king of Arzawa, in revolt
Mursili II defeats Uhha-ziti of Arzawa
installs Manapa-Tarhuntaas (read "tyrant" for Tarhunta? or an ethnonym (Tyrrehnians= Etruscans? as ruler of Seha River-Appiaya
(Beckman, page 78-79)


Uhhazitis king of Arzawa rules from Apasus (Ephesus)
Uhhazitis - Looks like kidney stones; not struck by impact
Mursili II attacks Piyama-KURUNDAS, the son of Uhhazitis, king of Arzawa;
Uhhazitis flees to islands
Uhhazitis allies himself with the king of Ahhiuwa (Achaeans),
Tapalazunaulis, son of Uhhazatis went up into Purandas
Mursili II takes the city of Purandas

Piyama-KURUNDAS, the son of Uhhazitis, King of Arzawa, comes out of the sea with the King of Ahhiyawa (Achaeans).
Piyama-KURUNDAS, the son of Uhhazitis, King of Arzawa is defeated by Mursili II in a naval battle
next events as passage above

Mursili II goes to attack
Manapa-Tarhunta (read "tyrant" for Tarhunta? or an ethnonym (Tyrrehnians= Etruscans?, ruler of Seha River-Appiaya),
the son of Muwa-Walwis
Manapa-Tarhunta surrenders

"I appointed Mashuiluwas in lordship at MILA, and I spoke as follows to Mashuiluwas:
"You, Mashuiluwas, came as a refugee before my father, and my father accepted you,
and he made you a son-in-law. He gave you Muwattis his daughter, my sister, as your wife.
Afterwards he did not stand with you, and over your enemies he did not smite.
I have stood beside you: I have smote your enemies.
Moreover I have built cities and fortified them;
I have occupied them with troops in garrison.
And I have established you as the lord of MILA."

Problems on all three sides:
to the north the Gasgans,
to the south Mitani,
to the west Achaeans

Apparently Mursili II negotiates with the Egyptians in his 7th year, 1337 BCE.
Nuhassi allies itself with Egypt (1337 BCE)
The Egyptian army is defeated
The Egyptian dates here should be
Amenhotep IV/Akhenaten 1353-1333 BCE
Nefertiti 1335-1333 BCE
Tutankhamen 1333-1323 BCE
(Annals of Mursili II)

Mursili II installs Mashuiluwa as ruler of MIRA and Kuwaliya
Mashuiluwa revolts, allies with Pitassa
Mursili II installs KUPANTA-KURUNTA as ruler of MIRA and Kuwaliya
(Beckman, page 69)

KUPANTA KURUNTA is the son of Muwatalli (daughter of Mursili II's father),
(Astour, page 36)

(DATE UNCERTAIN - but Beckman concluded that mention of Kurunta and Madduwatta's attack on him,
together with mention of installation of Kurunta as King of Tarhunta place events in it later, under Hatusili III.
Most likely it belongs here.)


Attarasiya (Atreus) of the Ahiya (Achaeans) [this is Linear B a2-a-ja - e.p.g.]
chased Madduwatta from Madduwatta's land.

The King's father (Mursili II) gave Zippasla (Sipylus) to Madduwatta
The King's father (Mursili II) offered Madduwatta Mount Hariyati, closer to Hatti
Madduwatta refused
The King's father (Mursili II) asked Madduwatta
to attack KUPANTA-KURANTA (kore/te,attendant to the God (the king)=Prince?)
ruler of Arzawa [note that KUPANTA-KURANTA was ruler of MIRA and Kuwaliya above]

The King's father (Mursili II) also specifically enjoined Madduwatta
not to form alliance with Attarasiya [Atreus, family house, or title/ethnonym ( King of Tyrrehnians= Etruscans?]

Madduwatta attacks KUPANTA-KURUNTA, ruler of Arzawa.
Arzawa counterattacks, destroys Madduwatta's army
The King's father (Mursili II) sends Piseni and Puskurunuwa,
attacks city of Sallawasi
The King's father (Mursili II) regains Madduwatta's goods

Attarasiya [Atreus, family house, or ruler+ethnonym, King of Tyrrehnians= Etruscans?]
plans attack on Madduwatta.
The King's father (Mursili II) dispatches
Kisnalpi to attack Attarasiya
One officer of Attarasiya [Atreus of Achaeans, or ruler+ethnonym, King of Tyrrehnians= Etruscans?] killed
One officer of Hatti, Zidanzash, killed
Attarasiya [Atreus of Achaeans,, family house, or ruler+ethnonym, King of Tyrrehnians= Etruscans?] returns to his own land

[Zidanzash appears in the sacrificial list E with two known sons of
Suppililuliumash, died 1346 BCE. Otten assigned the Indictment to the reign of
Arnuwandash I. Following Astour, page 32, It seems it must belong here - e.p.g.]


Dalawa (Classical Tlos?) attacks
Madduwatta asks
Kisnalpi to attack Hinduwa
while he (Madduwatta) attacks Dalawa
Madduwatta betrays Kisnalpi,
does not attack Dalawa,
but instead tells Dalawa about Kisnalpi's location
Kisnalpi and Partahulla killed by Dalawa

Madduwatta turns Dalawa away from Hatti and into his subjects
Madduwatta gives his daughter in marriage to KUPANTA-KURANTA
Madduwatta takes all the land of Arzawa
(Beckman, page 144 et seq)

installs Targasnalli as ruler of Hapisala
(Beckman, page 64)

conquers Gasgan city of Asharpayain north,
which controls road to Pala
good relations with Ahhiyawa (Achaeans)
(Lehmann, page 232)

problems with Ahhiyawa prince Tawagalawas (Eteocles?)
(Lehmann, page 233)

30) Muwatalli 1315-1282

Muwatalli moves the capitol to Dattassa
Hattusili III sets up kingdom at Hakmis on northern border
Amurru in Syria/Lebanon defects to Egyptians
Hattusili III sends Gasgan mercenaries to Muwatalli
for fight with Ramses II at Kadesh 1285
(Lehmann, pages 236-241)

Madduwatta tells King (Muwatalli) that he will conquer Hapalla for him
Madduwatta takes all of Hapalla for himself.

Madduwatta asked for passage
but then tried to attack Hittite army.
Antahitta and Mazlawa, ruler of Kuwaliya witnessed this

Madduwatta takes from Hatti:
The land of Zumanti
the land of Wallarimma
the land of Iyalanti
the land of Zumarri
the land of Mutamutassa
the land of Attarima
the land of Suruta
the land of Hursanassa
the city of Upnihuwala
King (Muwatalli) brings an army out of the land of Salpi
attacks Madduwatta
Madduwatta enlists the aid of the city of Pitassa.
Madduwatta tries to enlist aid of KUPANTA-KURUNTA of Arzawa.

The King (Muwatalli) sends his staff bearer Zuwa
Madduwatta kills him
Madduwatta burns down the city of Marasa

The King (Muwatalli) sends his staff bearer Mulliyara
and demands return of the land of Hapalla
Madduwatta returns Hapalla,
but keeps
the land of Iyalanti
the land of Zumarri
the land of Wallarimma

King (Muwatalli) dispatches his staff bearer Mulliyara
Madduwatta claims control over Niwalla,
claiming he is retainer of Piseni

The King (Muwatalli) asks
Madduwatta to stop raiding Alashiya (Cyprus)
with Attarasiya [Atreus of Achaeans, or family house name, or ruler/ethnonym, King of Tyrrehnians= Etruscans?] and the ruler of Piggaya (Phthia, Achilles home?)
Madduwatta claims that
he did not know that Alashiya (Cyprus) was subject to Hatti
(Beckman, page 144 et seq)

Arzawa [KUPANTA-KURUNTA] attacks Wilusa (Ilios - PIE Helios, the Sun) and Hatti
Alaksandru (Alexander - Paris) asks Muwatalli for help
(Beckman, page 83)

Stephanus of Byzantium records that
Paris and Helen encounter founder of Samylia in Caria
on their way to Troy, King Motylos, or Muwatalli (Muwatallish, Astour)
(Lehmann, page 233)

(31) Urhi-Teshub 1281-1282 BCE
a concubines son who styles himself Mursili III
returns the capitol to Hattusa
(Lehmann, page 242)

32) Hattusili III 1282-1251
deposes Urhi-Teshub, who flees to Egypt
and concludes a treaty with Ramses II
(Lehmann, page 242)
1283 Treaty with Ramses II concluded
(Astour, page 65)
The treaty gives 3rd greatest weight to "gods of Kizzuwadna"
(Lehmann, page 245)
[Kizzuwadna = Hyksos e.p.g.]

Treaty -
Those fleeing to Egypt to be returned to Hatti (Urhi-Tessub)
Amuru recognized by Egypt as Hittite appenage - Benteshina King of Amuru

Adad-nirari asks Hattusili III for
"good iron" from the city of Kizzuwatna
(Beckman, page 139)
["good iron" is most likely steel, possibly meteoritic steel - e.p.g.]

Hattusili III deposes Urhi-Teshub
installs {KUPANTA] KURUNTA as king of Tarhuntassa.
(Beckman, page 108)
[witnesses to this treaty
may indicate military defeat - e.p.g.]

Hattusili III pits Babylonians against Assyrians
(Lehmann, page 248)

33) Tudhaliya IV (1250-1220)

Tudhaliya IV fights Ahhijawa (Achaeans)
Tudhaliya IV fights Arzawa
(Lehmann, page 249)

Assyria attacks Hanigalbat
Elhi-Sharrumma, king of Isuwa
Halpa-ziti, king of Aleppo
(Beckman, page 142)

The King of Egypt,
The King of Babylonia
The King of Assyria, and
The King of Ahhijawa (Achaeans) are his equals
Assyria at war with Hatti
(Beckman, page 101)

(34) Arnuwanda 1219 BCE (Spurious?)
(Lehmann, page 295, not Astour nor Beckman)

(35) Suppiluliama IV 1190 BCE
many desertions, requires loyalty oaths
(Lehmann, page 295)

Sea peoples conquer Hittites
Ramses III at Medinet Habu:

"The foreigners conspired together on their islands.
All of a sudden, the countries vanished and were dispersed in battle.
No country withstood the force of their arms.
Hatti, Kode (Kizzuwadna?), Carchemish, Arzawa, and Alashiya (Cyprus) -
All were swiftly laid waste.

A camp was pitched at a place in Amurru (Northern Lebanon).
They destroyed its people, and its land was as if it had never been.
They drew near Egypt with fire going on before...
(Lehmann, pages 291-292)

Letter from Ugarit lists invaders and speaks of famine
(Lehmann, page 293)
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Re: Luwian notes

Postby Tiompan » Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:35 am

E.P. Grondine wrote:

And If you can't make yourself useful,

Highlighting errors is useful , but not usually to those who made them .
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Re: Luwian notes

Postby E.P. Grondine » Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:09 pm

Tiompan wrote:
E.P. Grondine wrote:

And If you can't make yourself useful,

Highlighting errors is useful , but not usually to those who made them.

Highlighting errors is useful, but usually not to those who made them. :twisted:
Usually people believe what they want to believe until reality intrudes.
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Re: Luwian notes

Postby E.P. Grondine » Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:28 pm

Rather than go into the various Cycle variants,
or the early Greek historians: ... l-sources/
we have this summary from Pausanius:

At that time in the reign of Ion the Eleusinians made war on the Athenians,
and these having invited Ion to be their leader in the war, he met his death in Attica,
his tomb being in the deme of Potamus.
The descendants of Ion became rulers of the Ionians, until they themselves as well as the people were expelled by the Achaeans.

The Achaeans at that time had themselves been expelled from Lacedaemon and Argos by the Dorians. [7.1.6]
The history of the Ionians in relation to the Achaeans I will give as soon as
I have explained the reason why
the inhabitants of Lacedaemon and Argos were the only Peloponnesians to be called Achaeans
before the return of the Dorians.

Archander and Architeles, sons of Achaeus, came from Phthiotis to Argos,
and after their arrival became sons-in-law of Danaus, Architeles marrying Automate and Archander marrying Scaea.
A very clear proof that they settled in Argos is the fact that Archander named his son Metanastes ( settler). [7.1.7]

When the sons of Achaeus came to power in Argos and Lacedaemon,
the inhabitants of these towns came to be called Achaeans.
The name Achaeans was common to them;
the ARGIVES had the special name of DANAI.

On the occasion referred to,
the Achaeans themselves and their king Tisamenus, the son of Orestes,
being expelled by the Dorians from Argos and Lacedaemon,
sent heralds to the Ionians, offering to settle among them without warfare.
But the kings of the Ionians were afraid that if the Achaeans united with them,
Tisamenus would be chosen king of the combined people because of his manliness and noble lineage. [7.1.8]

The Ionians rejected the proposal of the Achaeans and came out to fight them;
in the battle Tisamenus, the King of the Achaeans, was killed,
but the Ionians were overcome by the Achaeans,
and fled to Helice {Helios, Wilusa, Troy?0,
where they were besieged,
[but] afterwards they were allowed to depart under a truce.

The body of Tisamenus was buried in Helice by the Achaeans,
but afterwards at the command of the Delphic oracle the Lacedaemonians carried his bones to Sparta,
and in my own day his grave still existed in the place where the Lacedaemonians take the dinner called Pheiditia. [7.1.9]

The Ionians went to Attica,
and they were allowed to settle there by the Athenians and their king Melanthus, the son of Andropompus,
I suppose for the sake of Ion and his achievements when he was commander-in-chief of the Athenians.

Another account is that the Athenians suspected that the Dorians would not keep their hands off them,
and received the Ionians to strengthen themselves rather than for any good-will they felt towards the Ionians. [7.2.1]

A few years afterwards Medon and Neileus, the oldest of the sons of Codrus, quarrelled about the rule,
and Neileus refused to allow Medon to rule over him, because he was lame in one foot.
The disputants agreed to refer the matter to the Delphic oracle,
and the Pythian priestess gave the kingdom of Athens to Medon.
So Neileus and the rest of the sons of Codrus set out to found a colony,
taking with them any Athenian who wished to go with them,
but the greatest number of their company was composed of Ionians. [7.2.2]

This was the third expedition sent out from Greece under kings of a race different from that of the common folk.

The earliest was when Iolaus of Thebes, the nephew of Heracles,
led the Athenians and Thespians to Sardinia.

One generation before the Ionians set sail from Athens,
the Lacedaemonians
and the Minyans, who had been expelled from Lemnos by the Pelasgians,
were led by the Theban Theras, the son of Autesion,
to the island now called after him, but formerly named CALISTE. [7.2.3]

The third occasion was the expedition to which I have referred,
when the sons of Codrus were appointed leaders of the Ionians,
although they were not related to the Ionians, but were,
through Codrus and Melanthus, Messenians of Pylus (Pylos?), and, on their mother's side, Athenians.

Those who shared in the expedition of the Ionians were the following among the Greeks:
some Thebans under Philotas, a descendant of Peneleus;
Minyans of Orchomenus, because they were related to the sons of Codrus. [7.2.4]
All the Phocians, except the Delphians, also took part,
and with them Abantes from Euboea.
Ships for the voyage were given to the Phocians by Philogenes and Damon, Athenians and sons of Euctemon,
who themselves led the colony.

When they landed in Asia they divided,
the different parties attacking the different cities on the coast,
and Neileus with his party made for Miletus. [7.2.5]

The Milesians themselves give the following account of their earliest history:
For two generations, they say, their land was called Anactoria, during the reigns of Anax, an aboriginal, and of Asterius his son;
but when Miletus landed with an army of Cretans both the land and the city changed their name to Miletus.
Miletus and his men came from Crete, fleeing from Minos, the son of Europa;
and the Carians, the former inhabitants of the land, united with the Cretans. But to resume. [7.2.6]

When the Ionians had overcome the ancient Milesians they killed every male,
except those who escaped the capture of the city,
but the wives of the Milesians and their daughters they married.
The grave of Neileus is on the left of the road, not far from the gate, as you go to Didymi.
The sanctuary of Apollo at Didymi, and his oracle, are earlier than the immigration of the Ionians,
while the cult of Ephesian Artemis is far more ancient still than their coming. [7.2.7]

Pindar, however, it seems to me, did not learn everything about the goddess Artemis,
for he says that this sanctuary was founded by the Amazons during their campaign against Athens and Theseus.1
It is a fact that the women from the Thermodon, as they knew the sanctuary from of old,
sacrificed to the Ephesian goddess both on this occasion and when they had fled from Heracles;
some of them earlier still, when they had fled from Dionysus, having come to the sanctuary as suppliants.

However, the sanctuary was founded not by the Amazons,
but by Coresus, an aboriginal,
and Ephesus, who is thought to have been a son of the river Cayster, and from Ephesus the city received its name. [7.2.8]
The inhabitants of the land were partly Leleges, a branch of the Carians, but the greater number were Lydians.
In addition there were others who dwelt around the sanctuary for the sake of its protection,
and these included some women of the race of the Amazons.

But Androclus the son of Codrus (for he it was who was appointed king of the Ionians who sailed against Ephesus)
expelled from the land the Leleges and Lydians who occupied the upper city.
Those, however, who dwelt around the sanctuary had nothing to fear;
they exchanged oaths of friendship with the Ionians and escaped warfare.
Androclus also took Samos from the Samians, and for a time the Ephesians held Samos and the adjacent islands. [7.2.9]
But after that the Samians had returned to their own land, Androclus helped the people of Priene against the Carians.
The Greek army was victorious, but Androclus was killed in the battle.
The Ephesians carried off his body and buried it in their own land,
at the spot where his tomb is pointed out at the present day, on the road leading from the sanctuary past the Olympieum to the Magnesian gate.
On the tomb is a statue of an armed man. [7.2.10]

The Ionians who settled at Myus and Priene, they too took the cities from Carians.
The founder of Myus was Cyaretus the son of Codrus,
but the people of Priene, half Theban and half Ionian, had as their founders Philotas, the descendant of Peneleus, and Aepytus, the son of Neileus.
The people of Priene, although they suffered much at the hands of Tabutes the Persian and afterwards at the hands of Hiero, a native,
yet down to the present day are accounted Ionians.
The people of Myus left their city on account of the following accident. [7.2.11]
A small inlet of the sea used to run into their land.
This inlet the river Maeander turned into a lake, by blocking up the entrance with mud.
When the water, ceasing to be sea, became fresh,1 gnats in vast swarms bred in the lake until the inhabitants were forced to leave the city.
They departed for Miletus, taking with them the images of the gods and their other movables,
and on my visit I found nothing in Myus except a white marble temple of Dionysus.
A similar fate to that of Myus happened to the people of Atarneus, under Mount Pergamus. [7.3.1]

The people of Colophon suppose that the sanctuary at Clarus, and the oracle, were founded in the remotest antiquity.
They assert that while the Carians still held the land,
the first Greeks to arrive were Cretans under Rhacius, who was followed by a great crowd also;
these occupied the shore and were strong in ships,
but the greater part of the country continued in the possession of the Carians.
When Thebes was taken by Thersander, the son of Polyneices, and the Argives,
among the prisoners brought to Apollo at Delphi was Manto.
Her father Teiresias had died on the way, in Haliartia, [7.3.2]
and when the god had sent them out to found a colony, they crossed in ships to Asia,
but as they came to Clarus, the Cretans came against them armed and carried them away to Rhacius.
But Rhacius, learning from Manto who they were and why they were come,
took Manto to wife, and allowed the people with her to inhabit the land.
Mopsus, the son of Rhacius and of Manto,
drove the Carians from the country altogether. [7.3.3]

The Ionians swore an oath to the Greeks in Colophon,
and lived with them in one city on equal terms,
but the kingship was taken by the Ionian leaders, Damasichthon and Promethus, sons of Codrus.
Afterwards Promethus killed his brother Damasichthon and fled to Naxos, where he died,
but his body was carried home and received by the sons of Damasichthon.
The name of the place where Damasichthon is buried is called Polyteichides. [7.3.4]

How it befell that Colophon was laid waste I have already related in my account of Lysimachus.1
Of those who were transported to Ephesus only the people of Colophon fought against Lysimachus and the Macedonians.
The grave of those Colophonians and Smyrnaeans who fell in the battle is on the left of the road as you go to Clarus. [7.3.5]

The city of Lebedus was razed to the ground by Lysimachus,
simply in order that the population of Ephesus might be increased.
The land around Lebedus is a happy one;
in particular its hot baths are more numerous and more pleasant than any others on the coast.
Originally Lebedus also was inhabited by the Carians,
until they were driven out by Andraemon the son of Codrus and the Ionians.
The grave of Andraemon is on the left of the road as you go from Colophon, when you have crossed the river Calaon. [7.3.6]

Teos used to be inhabited by Minyans of Orchomenus, who came to it with Athamas.
This Athamas is said to have been a descendant of Athamas the son of Aeolus.
Here too there was a Carian element combined with the Greek,
while Ionians were introduced into Teos by Apoecus, a great-grandchild of Melanthus,
who showed no hostility either to the Orchomenians or to the Teians.

A few years later there came men from Athens and from Boeotia;
the Attic contingent was under Damasus and Naoclus, the sons of Codrus, while the Boeotians were led by Geres, a Boeotian.
Both parties were received by Apoecus and the Teians as fellow-settlers. [7.3.7]

The Erythraeans say that they came originally from Crete with Erythrus the son of Rhadamanthus,
and that this Erythrus was the founder of their city.
Along with the Cretans there dwelt in the city Lycians, Carians, and Pamphylians;
Lycians because of their kinship with the Cretans, as they came of old from Crete, having fled along with Sarpedon;
Carians because of their ancient friendship with Minos;
Pamphylians because they too belong to the Greek race, being among those who after the taking of Troy wandered with Calchas.

The peoples I have enumerated occupied Erythrae
when Cleopus the son of Codrus gathered men from all the cities of Ionia, so many from each,
and introduced them as settlers among the Erythraeans. [7.3.8]

The cities of Clazomenae and Phocaea were not inhabited before the Ionians came to Asia.
When the Ionians arrived,
a wandering division of them sent for a leader, Parphorus, from the Colophonians,
and founded under Mount Ida a city which shortly afterwards they abandoned,
and returning to Ionia they founded Scyppium in the Colophonian territory. [7.3.9]

They left of their own free-will Colophonian territory also,
and so occupied the land which they still hold, and built on the mainland the city of Clazomenae.
Later they crossed over to the island through their fear of the Persians.
But in course of time Alexander the son of Philip was destined to make Clazomenae a peninsula by a mole from the mainland to the island.
Of these Clazomenians the greater part were not Ionians, but Cleonaeans and Phliasians,
who abandoned their cities when the Dorians had returned to Peloponnesus. [7.3.10]

The Phocaeans are by birth from the land under Parnassus still called Phocis,
who crossed to Asia with the Athenians Philogenes and Damon.
Their land they took from the Cymaeans, not by war but by agreement.
When the Ionians would not admit them to the Ionian confederacy
until they accepted kings of the race of the Codridae, they accepted Deoetes, Periclus and Abartus from Erythrae and from Teos.


1 Hom. Il. 2.575
2 Hom. Il. 2.575
1 See Pind. fr. 174.
1 This is rather a strange sense to give toenostêse, and perhaps with Sylburg we should readenosêse, "became unhealthy," (owing to its being stagnant).
1 Paus. 1.9.7
Usually people believe what they want to believe until reality intrudes.
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E.P. Grondine
Posts: 1882
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:36 am

Re: Luwian notes

Postby E.P. Grondine » Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:10 am


I have not looked at any of this since 2003 or so.
As you can see, there were three attempts to reconstruct Hittite chronology:
Astour, Beckman, and Lehman.
When I first arrived in Illinois I tried to locate Astour, only to lean that he had passed on.

Most of my detailed knowledge of these materials was lost in my stroke,
and I have not even seen a Kadmos for well over 10 years.

A few things can be asserted with some confidence:
Thera, called Calliste at the time of its eruption in 1628,
was most likely the capitol of the "Lycian Trade Federation"
The tsunami from that eruption hit
every trading port in that "federation".
None the less, it remained intact through LM1B.

Tantalus was the Hittite King Te Hanilishi,
and the destruction of the Hittite appenages' military forces in the Joshua Impact
led to the invasion of Crete by the the Achaeans, Linear B a2-a-ja,
and the end of LM1B.

If you re attempting to build an absolute chronology,
the contemporary documents must be in agreement.
Further, the chronology must agree with geological evidence,
and that evidence includes asteroid and comet impacts.

Secondary literature is goo for little more than "color" for any history,
and that is only if it ha not been too corrupted.

I have often thought that troweling through the spoils heaps of the early excavators
might lead to the recovery of more written materials, cuneiform tablets and tablets in other writing systems.
Usually people believe what they want to believe until reality intrudes.
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E.P. Grondine
Posts: 1882
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:36 am


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